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| Boy bitten by a lizard (detail) by Caravaggio |
How far do we really possess things?
We usually say “my mom” but if we have brothers the possessive element changes into “our mother” since she is no longer “mine” but “ours” – we no longer hold the exclusivity. Notwithstanding we do not really “possess” her since she is somebody else’s daughter, sister, cousin, friend, wife, secret love etc...And in turn that somebody does not “possess” her either.
The same can be applied to fathers, and given their ability to spread their seed; many times it is even harder to claim some sort of possessiveness in regards to him.
In some cases one says “my husband/wife” but this possession is proved false in case of bigamy and adultery, since it is sharing “his/her husband/wife” with somebody else; severing, thus, the sense of possessiveness and exclusivity. But you can ask, “what if there is not bigamy nor adultery involved?” then I’d offer myself to present two hypotheses:
1- The first theory would be applied (husband/wife being somebody else’s son/daughter, brother/sister etc)
2- The husband/wife is the object of somebody else’s secret feelings. Sometimes, pseudo-possession through thought is more lasting than if there were physical, or lawful, possession.
The word "possession" not only implies owning (and possessing) something but also having utter control over it. When using the possessive pronouns, and adjectives, we illusively bestow upon ourselves a sense of control that, in reality, we do not have.
“My house”...is it really? If a financial mishap occurs, one loses it; if Mother Nature “decides” to express its fury, one loses it...if a family tragedy occurs, the house will change its elements of possession.
Possession is practically ephemeral...
There is only one Entity Who truly possesses any and everything; the One Who exerts absolute power over all things and all of us – Him.
“My body”...not quite. We made a lease to the shells we incarnate in, but we don’t really possess them; because when He decides we get sick (against our will), we perish (many times contrary to our will, although we know that it is part of existence) and, we leave the fleshy temple leased to us so that the cycle of evolution may continue.
I can picture most of you saying “What an absurd! I do have a mom, a dad, a family...it’s real. What are you talking about?” and perhaps I am being too bold, however allow me to just add one last thought:
Having a mom, a sister, husband, wife; well, a family is having a sense of belonging, which is much different than the sense of possession.
Our language (through the constant use of grammatical possessive elements) encourages us to be obsessed by possessing, yet we don’t seem to possess whatsoever in an absolute sense...
Image: Paranoic Astral Image by Salvador Dalí
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Dissecting Society™ welcomes all sorts of comments, as we are strong advocates of freedom of speech; however, we reserve the right to delete Troll Activity; libellous and offensive comments (e.g. racist and anti-Semitic) plus those with excessive foul language. This blog does not view vulgarity as being protected by the right to free speech. Cheers
Max,
ReplyDeleteI was just getting revved up to having a major disagreement with you until your last few lines totally disarmed me" Having a mom, a sister, husband, wife; well, a family is having a sense of belonging, which is much different than the sense of possession.
Our language (through the constant use of grammatical possessive elements) encourages us to be obsessed by possessing, yet we don’t seem to possess whatsoever in an absolute sense..."
We do have an obsession with possession. You can quote me on that, except you said the same thing, just slightly differently "obsessed by possessing."
As children we seem to have an inherent desire to possess. How often have you seen children in an argument with the dialog being: "mine / no, it's mine / it's mine I tell you / no it's mine / Mine".......and so on. Is this learned or is this inherent in human nature and needs to be unlearned. Food for thought (I know, another topic for you to delve into).
We, as you so eloquently put it, can never actually possess anything, not even our own body. But wait, is our soul our own possession? (Ohhhhhh, that's a good topic!)
Anyway, I am not sure if I actually told you how much I LOVE your blog. You always have me thinking and re-thinking. It's the re-thinking that I like most.
BTW, it seems that you last post was a definite hit (as per the number of comments.)
Hi Mel :D!
ReplyDelete"I was just getting revved up to having a major disagreement with you until your last few lines totally disarmed me" Having a mom, a sister, husband, wife; well, a family is having a sense of belonging, which is much different than the sense of possession." - LOL you were? On one hand I am content for having desarmed you; but on the other I am missing our debates...I must find a topic for us to disagree upon lol lol...
"We do have an obsession with possession. You can quote me on that, except you said the same thing, just slightly differently "obsessed by possessing."" - LOL *Max quoting Mel*!
"As children we seem to have an inherent desire to possess. How often have you seen children in an argument with the dialog being: "mine / no, it's mine / it's mine I tell you / no it's mine / Mine".......and so on. Is this learned or is this inherent in human nature and needs to be unlearned. Food for thought (I know, another topic for you to delve into)." - yes, true! And your example is perfect!! Excellent question! Let me see if I can reply it: this is not inherent to souls, yet it is inherent to human nature since when we are born (the minute we come out as humans) our minds begin to produce needs, and those needs need to be met. Once they are met we want to cling to them, to the marvellous feeling that it provides us. Then, when needs are met, we seek to own stuff because the power of acquiring things (and the process of acquiring them) is even more delicious than providing for needs. The downside of this is: after tasting power, we want to taste control, and after this we want to cling to it and to do so, we lose control of our self-control and begin to destroy...not only ourselves but everything around us.
"We, as you so eloquently put it, can never actually possess anything, not even our own body. But wait, is our soul our own possession? (Ohhhhhh, that's a good topic!)" - OMG...that is another excellent topic, Mel!!!! Let me write it down (oooh, you are so good! You are my personal encyclopedia of topics): thank you :D! In fifteen days, this article will come out (cause I already have a theme for next week) *High five*!
"Anyway, I am not sure if I actually told you how much I LOVE your blog. You always have me thinking and re-thinking. It's the re-thinking that I like most." - If you have I must say that it is good to hear it again :D! Thank you so much, my friend *bowing*! Your comments make me think and re-think my thoughts...you're great!
"BTW, it seems that you last post was a definite hit (as per the number of comments.)" - you know? It was indeed...not only by the number of comments but by their quality. I am pleased *bowing*!
Mel, thank you ever so much for not only your fantastic thoughts but also for having given me a delicious idea for an article :D!
Cheers
Max,
ReplyDeleteWith the types of articles and the discussions that take place over here, your blog should be required reading for everyone!!! It is with me. I have a reminder for every Tuesday to visit, with my "re-thinking" cap on.
Getting back to this article, it is pretty much what I thought you would say, the concept of possession is inherent in human nature. So as we grow, both physically and spiritually, we must learn to let go.
I just had another thought...... hypothetically, if a perfectly balanced person, genetically speaking, were born into the wild, with no human contact whatever (sad, I know, but again hypothetically speaking) would the spiritual side ever develop?
I have a follow-up, but I will wait to see what you say. If this is something you would like to address in a future article, I can wait to give you my follow-up.
Max,
ReplyDeleteYou have made some very excellent points. Actually, I have always looked at my posessions in this light too. I feel that everything I own already belongs to God, He just shares them with me. My children aren't really mine, they are His, and I'm allowed the privilege of raising them in this life. Everything I am, I can attribute to what He has given me, and the opportunities and blessings He gave me to get to this point.
There is, however, one thing that is uniquely our own. It is the only real thing we have to give to God, since everything else already belongs to Him. That one thing is our free will. By choosing to worship and follow him, I am giving Him the one thing that is truly mine.
EXCELLENT post, Max! I once thought about this topic, but not as deeply as you did. However, I LOVE the way you put it down in words and how you summed it up! :-))))
ReplyDeleteBtw, I'll have my first womanly check-up on Oct 3rd!!! Hope it won't be painful he he he...
Mel,
ReplyDelete"With the types of articles and the discussions that take place over here, your blog should be required reading for everyone!!! It is with me. I have a reminder for every Tuesday to visit, with my "re-thinking" cap on." - *bowing* I am honoured by such words, thank you! "re-thinking cap on" LOL LOL that is a great image....
"Getting back to this article, it is pretty much what I thought you would say, the concept of possession is inherent in human nature. So as we grow, both physically and spiritually, we must learn to let go." - absolutely! We must learn how to detach.
"I just had another thought......" - shoot!
"hypothetically, if a perfectly balanced person, genetically speaking, were born into the wild, with no human contact whatever (sad, I know, but again hypothetically speaking) would the spiritual side ever develop?" - great question! Let me think...ok, I'm ready to answer...I envision someone being born in the wild with no human contact whatsoever taking care of his basic needs first, then marking his territory, building strategies to defend himself, be alert at all times, and perhaps after God sends him a female to mate with (procreate with) he might focus on spiritual questions "Who am I? Where did I come from, where am I going? Why am I here? Who made me? etc" because his mind will start focusing on the spirit once he is comfortable...know what I mean?
"I have a follow-up, but I will wait to see what you say. If this is something you would like to address in a future article, I can wait to give you my follow-up." - I'd love to hear what you have to say about this, Mel :D!
Hey D! :D
ReplyDelete"You have made some very excellent points." - thank you *bowing*!
"Actually, I have always looked at my posessions in this light too. I feel that everything I own already belongs to God, He just shares them with me." - exactly!
"My children aren't really mine, they are His, and I'm allowed the privilege of raising them in this life. Everything I am, I can attribute to what He has given me, and the opportunities and blessings He gave me to get to this point." - I agree!
"There is, however, one thing that is uniquely our own. It is the only real thing we have to give to God, since everything else already belongs to Him. That one thing is our free will. By choosing to worship and follow him, I am giving Him the one thing that is truly mine." - Aaaah...I see...well, I am not totally in accord with you on this one, since I believe that your free will is in actuality His. He bestowed that free will upon you, He created it, He owns it, He offers it. About your having chosen to worship and follow Him (God bless you for it) you may not have made that choice since we are born worshipping and following him already. We could say that humans choose not to follow and worship Him, but even that could be disputable if we look at it under the "destiny assignment" perspective...
Just a thought...
Great comment, D: thank you so much *bowing*! :D
Cheers
Max,
ReplyDeleteYou never seize to amaze. I should have known that you would tie my question to Adam & Eve. You got me there.
My follow-up, although not so deep given your response, is "Is spirituality learned or inherent?" Obviously, it has to be inherent or else it wouldn't really exist (not material existence.)
I think I have used up my alloted time. (LOL) [:~)
Hey Girl :D!
ReplyDelete"EXCELLENT post, Max!" - why, thank you, darling *bowing*!
"I once thought about this topic, but not as deeply as you did. However, I LOVE the way you put it down in words and how you summed it up! :-))))" - I think we all think about this at some point of our lives...we can't help it, we are all philosophers (deep down) :D! Thanks, I am glad you loved it :D!
"Btw, I'll have my first womanly check-up on Oct 3rd!!! Hope it won't be painful he he he..." - girl, it will be just fine! Just remember one thing: breath in...wait, let me email you instead!
Amelia, thank you so much for your comment :D!
Cheers
Mel,
ReplyDelete"You never seize to amaze. I should have known that you would tie my question to Adam & Eve. You got me there." - *bowing*...you know I love that couple lol...
"My follow-up, although not so deep given your response, is "Is spirituality learned or inherent?" Obviously, it has to be inherent or else it wouldn't really exist (not material existence.)" - I agree with you...in fact that was what I was telling a friend-reader "we don't choose to follow and worship God, since we are born doing it; we could say that we choose not to follow and worship Him...and even so..." (choices are sometimes a bit relative in this world).
"I think I have used up my alloted time. (LOL) [:~)" - LOL your time here is infinite, Mel! You are a VIP at the MAX :D!
Cheers
Hi Max!
ReplyDeleteWell as you know I am now back from what some are calling my “blogging hiatus”, and what a pleasure it is to be at your place where I can sit with a warm cup of tea, put my feet up on the edge of the coffee table and wander around in the world of MAX….
As always a very intriguing concept and approach, nicely done!
I am going to key in on 2 points.
#1 You said:
There is only one Entity Who truly possesses any and everything; the One Who exerts absolute power over all things and all of us – Him.
I respond:
I agree that God owns every particle of the universe, He has absolute power (which could bring us back to our conversations about absolutes), God owns absolutely everything, Jesus created everything ex nihilo “out of nothing” plus as Colossians explains Jesus holds all of creation together. However I would suggest to you that He in His Sovereign will gifts us with our flesh and blood bodies to be freely used in His glorification. He owns our bodies but He allows us to be free agents, for example He does not force us to sin we do that of our own free will.
#2 You said:
“My body”...not quite. We made a lease to the shells we incarnate in, but we don’t really possess them; because when He decides we get sick (against our will), we perish (many times contrary to our will, although we know that it is part of existence) and, we leave the fleshy temple leased to us so that the cycle of evolution may continue.
I respond:
Our perishable bodies will be resurrected imperishable just as Jesus was resurrected in His imperishable glorified physical body so shall we be…however although Jesus followers bodies will be resurrected for eternity in Heaven others that reject His free gift thru relationship will be resurrected for eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
- - Hebrews 9:27 TNIV
Ah…it feels good to be back my friend! Keep up the great work!
Hi Max, hope you don't mind if I provide some balance here (or try to at least).
ReplyDelete"There is only one Entity Who truly possesses any and everything; the One Who exerts absolute power over all things and all of us – Him."
Wow...this is a truly sinister statement! You are describing a celestial dictatorship...a totalitarian regime ruled by some sort of ineffable creature! But it gets worse...
"because when He decides we get sick (against our will), we perish (many times contrary to our will,"
What a horrific idea! That we are playthings for some spacial authority that decides when humans die, sometimes in horrible pain. Where is the morality in this idea? Where is the comfort for a small child dying of a terrible disease?
To say that it is all part of some plan of an invented god that we cannot fully comprehend is just not good enough in the 21st century.
It is not my intention to offend, but you did say in your previous post that 'balance' is important - and seeing as my will is supposedly guided by your 'Him', perhaps this is just my "mission", to provide a rational voice?
Big Love
x
Oh, so good max, but that's where all the trouble is isn't it, the want for possessions, the right to call something yours, the reason for all our Earthy conflicts.
ReplyDeleteWe do have possessions, but not permanent, everything passes as do our shells, but the soul lasts forever, but it isn't a possession, it is what we are,you can't possess yourself, or can you?, the devil possesses some souls, I'm sure of that, but then only for as long as God allows, again a temporary situation.
Wow, very interesting stuff max, well done.
Max:
ReplyDeleteWell, well, well, well. I hardly know what to say. Possession is a part of who we are? How else should we express this concept? It isn't my house? Okay. It's the bank's house. So then why is it okay to say it's the bank's house? Isn't that possessive too? And if it's paid off? Is it mine then? And what about the statement, My God? I've heard plenty of people say it's their God - meaning, of course, exclusive of your God. Maybe you believe in a different sort of God than me. I realize it isn't actually your God, but how to you say it - God? House? Wife? Car? If that's the case, then we'll have to reinvent our entire language. Whoops! Did I just say our language. I meant simply, language.
Another interesting post to twist my brain.
Happy trails.
Hi Max,
ReplyDeleteIsn't possession 9/10ths of the law, meaning what you possess is yours? We are leasing our bodies, but I think we possess our thoughts, emotions, compassion, intellect and the like.
When we refer to something as being ours, it can also be construed that we feel a connection to it, therefore we call, it ours.
"The word "possession" not only implies owning (and possessing) something but also having utter control over it. When using the possessive pronouns, and adjectives, we illusively bestow upon ourselves a sense of control that, in reality, we do not have."
I agree. I think that we can possess an in animate object, such as a car, book, etc., however we cannot possess a person. We can never possess another human being. For me, using possessive pronouns is a form of affection, not possession. For instance, if I were to say this is my friend, Max, I want everyone to know that Max is a part of my life. She is special and I feel that she is mine to share. I wouldn't speak about her in the possessive sense. (just an example.)
"There is only one Entity Who truly possesses any and everything; the One Who exerts absolute power over all things and all of us – Him."
Agreed. Do you think we can possess Him without possessing ourselves? Is it possible that he wants us to feel that we can possess all that we desire inside of us? Though he exerts absolute power, it is the power of love and how could we not behold such power without possessing it in the depths of our Soul.
“...we leave the fleshy temple leased to us so that the cycle of evolution may continue."
Yes, it is a continuation of the power of love.
"Having a mom, a sister, husband, wife; well, a family is having a sense of belonging, which is much different than the sense of possession."
I agree for the most part, but I also think that one's family can make them feel disenfranchised too and make them feel like they don't belong to anyone, anywhere or to any group of Souls. Would you agree that there is a level of disenfranchisement in society that is crippling one's sense of being?
Exceptional post "my" darling. :D
I don't possess you, I celebrate you as I celebrate love.
Yours, Mine & Ours Cheers
Max, I have heard of the "destiny" theories before, but to me, if we are already "pre-destined" to be the way we are, then why come to this earth life? I do think we might have been given certain tasks, or assignments, or missions to fulfill in this life, but I think it is still up to us whether or not we will do them. If we were pre-destined to be a certain way, then this life wouldn't truly be a test of our abilities and faith. :)
ReplyDeleteHi LS!
ReplyDelete"Well as you know I am now back from what some are calling my “blogging hiatus”, and what a pleasure it is to be at your place where I can sit with a warm cup of tea, put my feet up on the edge of the coffee table and wander around in the world of MAX…" - Welcome back, my friend!!! Yes, please do take a seat...I have prepare some Earl grey for you, and some cookies too lol....
"As always a very intriguing concept and approach, nicely done!" - thank you *bowing*!
"However I would suggest to you that He in His Sovereign will gifts us with our flesh and blood bodies to be freely used in His glorification. He owns our bodies but He allows us to be free agents, for example He does not force us to sin we do that of our own free will." - yes, He gave us free will, but that doesn't mean that we actually possess it; since free will is not entirely free. Many times what we think to be a consequence of free will, of choice, in truth is not...it is all part of a Divine pre-conceived plan. Plus, free will is not the only factor influencing events: you have karma, destiny...and who controls these? Him.
"Our perishable bodies will be resurrected imperishable just as Jesus was resurrected in His imperishable glorified physical body so shall we be…however although Jesus followers bodies will be resurrected for eternity in Heaven others that reject His free gift thru relationship will be resurrected for eternity in the Lake of Fire." - I understand that this is a Christian belief, and I respect it, but in this case we are talking about possessing our bodies, which we don't - they belong to God (since He created us), not to us.
In reference to your comment: Jesus' body did perish, didn't it? At least at first, so it was perishable. The fact that it resurrected (as it is written) doesn't make it imperishable, only the object of a Divine sign.
"Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, - - Hebrews 9:27 TNIV" - indeed, once you leave your body that is it, you can never get it back...when you return you will have a different shell. When you perish you will face "trial" in order to know if whether you fulfilled your mission or not, or how far you are from it or not.
"Ah…it feels good to be back my friend! Keep up the great work!" - it feels good to have you back :D! Let the games begin!! Thanks, buddy :D!
LS, thank you for such a fantastic comment...only you, man...only you!
Cheers
Hi Mantecanaut :D!
ReplyDelete"hope you don't mind if I provide some balance here (or try to at least)." - not at all, dear...go ahead :D!
"Wow...this is a truly sinister statement! You are describing a celestial dictatorship...a totalitarian regime ruled by some sort of ineffable creature! But it gets worse..." - lol interesting reaction...placing "celestial" and "dictatorship" in the same sentence is an absurd, since God is anything but a dictator: if He were many of those who deny Him, and practically spit on His name would be dead. But they are not, why? Because the Lord Is merciful, forgiving, loving, understanding. "Creature" you say...you and I are creatures, God is the Creator.
"What a horrific idea! That we are playthings for some spacial authority that decides when humans die, sometimes in horrible pain. Where is the morality in this idea? Where is the comfort for a small child dying of a terrible disease?" - How can you speak of morality when you (from what you are saying here) deny the Source of it? The Creator created life (that is why He is the Creator) and He can destroy it as well, whenever He sees fit. A small child dying of a terrible disease is sad, yes; but it is part of existence and its mysteries.
I am intrigued by you, Mantecanaut: you seem to take pleasure in denying yourself...you are a nihilist: how refreshing.
"To say that it is all part of some plan of an invented god that we cannot fully comprehend is just not good enough in the 21st century." - no, it is not good enough for you, and for the few like you. But thank God, I understand why nihilists and their pseudo-intelligent theories must co-exist with the rest of us: balance. You serve the purpose of showing us why we must never forsake Him...so: thank you *bowing*.
"It is not my intention to offend," - oh no...you would never be able to offend me, darling....so don't worry with that: express yourself!
"but you did say in your previous post that 'balance' is important - and seeing as my will is supposedly guided by your 'Him', perhaps this is just my "mission", to provide a rational voice?" - LOL that is an extremely interesting view indeed LOL...well, I have already explained your "mission" above...
Mantecanut, it is always a pleasure to see you here and converse with you :D! You are definitely an interesting specimen *bowing*!
Big love
Hi Lord of the Astropics :D!
ReplyDelete"Oh, so good max, but that's where all the trouble is isn't it, the want for possessions, the right to call something yours, the reason for all our Earthy conflicts." - thank you! Yes, possessions are the main cause of Earthly conflicts...
"We do have possessions, but not permanent, everything passes as do our shells, but the soul lasts forever, but it isn't a possession, it is what we are,you can't possess yourself, or can you?, the devil possesses some souls, I'm sure of that, but then only for as long as God allows, again a temporary situation." - love this section...but if it is temporary, we don't really possess things...we only have a sense of belonging, they belong to us...yet, we know we can't possess them. No, we can't possess ourselves, cause God is the one Who possesses us. True, evil possesses souls but note that it belongs to the spiritual realm, even though in an opposite stage...and as you so well stated: "again a temporary situation", why? Because even that possession is illusory, since only God possesses us.
"Wow, very interesting stuff max, well done." - thanks, Bob :D! But your comment is the one that left me "wow"...so, thank you *bowing*!
I must applaude to you *clap clap clap*!
Cheers
Hey Swu :D!
ReplyDelete"Well, well, well, well. I hardly know what to say." - say whatever comes to your mind, mate...
"Possession is a part of who we are? How else should we express this concept? It isn't my house? Okay. It's the bank's house. So then why is it okay to say it's the bank's house? Isn't that possessive too? And if it's paid off? Is it mine then?" - lol...and if we wanted to be radical we could go on with your brainstorm and conclude that not even the bank owns the house. And if it is paid off and a storm comes and destroys it...it is not yours any longer, it's nobody's; and so on and so on...
The concept of possession Vs belonging is what is at stake here. Possessing things imply having control...we don't control things, we don't control anything (and many times, not even our minds)...
"And what about the statement, My God? I've heard plenty of people say it's their God - meaning, of course, exclusive of your God. Maybe you believe in a different sort of God than me. I realize it isn't actually your God, but how to you say it - God? House? Wife? Car?" - oh, that statement is very interesting....humans adore making up a thousand gods when there is only One. So, I would say (from a monotheist point of view) that the "My God" statement is false. Yes, when referring to God it is true to just say "God" since He belongs to everybody (note that I said "belongs to" not "possessed by"). As for the wife and car...well, one can say "my car, my wife" as a sense of belonging, but never possession...
"If that's the case, then we'll have to reinvent our entire language. Whoops! Did I just say our language. I meant simply, language." - LOL we should reinvent the language of people in regards to so many other aspects than this (aspects that suggest racism, sexism, any word that will result in disrespect to humans)...but even this seems to be impossible to reform in our earthly language.
"Another interesting post to twist my brain." - thanks :D!
Swu, I absolutely loved your comment, I love it: thank you ever so much *bowing*!
Cheers
Happy trails.
Hello Alexys :D!
ReplyDelete"Isn't possession 9/10ths of the law, meaning what you possess is yours? We are leasing our bodies, but I think we possess our thoughts, emotions, compassion, intellect and the like." - the law was written by men. Do we really possess our thoughts, emotions, compassion intellect and the like? Possession encompasses 100% control...do we always control our emotions, compassion, intellect? No...so, they belong to us, they are not possessed by us.
"When we refer to something as being ours, it can also be construed that we feel a connection to it, therefore we call, it ours." - sense of belonging.
"We can never possess another human being. For me, using possessive pronouns is a form of affection, not possession. For instance, if I were to say this is my friend, Max, I want everyone to know that Max is a part of my life. She is special and I feel that she is mine to share. I wouldn't speak about her in the possessive sense. (just an example.)" - and what a great example it is :D *throwing you a kiss*!! Affection is a factor of belonging, yes...we can use possessive pronouns as a form of affection, you are right.
"Do you think we can possess Him without possessing ourselves? Is it possible that he wants us to feel that we can possess all that we desire inside of us? Though he exerts absolute power, it is the power of love and how could we not behold such power without possessing it in the depths of our Soul." - I think He belongs to us, yet we do not possess Him (could ever the creature possess the Creator?). Great question...from what I have read and felt of God, He wants us to have, acquire, all that He Knows we should (thus, the theory that what we think we want is not always what we need - meaning that the Divine delines what is right for us, even if it goes against our will, wants, desires, and what we believe to be our needs). God's power includes Love, no doubt, but it is not about love only (He is the Ultimate Balance, and so He is Love and its opposite)...yes, we should behold such power, and we do, however we do not possess it...we have it inside (two different things).
"Yes, it is a continuation of the power of love." - it can be viewed that way as well, yes...but I would say that it is the continuation of the evolutionary cycle (which not always includes love).
"I agree for the most part, but I also think that one's family can make them feel disenfranchised too and make them feel like they don't belong to anyone, anywhere or to any group of Souls. Would you agree that there is a level of disenfranchisement in society that is crippling one's sense of being?" - families making its members disenfranchised (and the sense of non-belonging) are all part of the karma; which doesn't exclude the sense of belonging. You belong to that karmic family to fulfil a mission: be it burning karmic ties, or evolve, or actually do something for one of the members...only God knows...
I would agree that the society holds some level of disenfranchisement "that is crippling one's sense of being" because our society has lost its basic values as a consequence of the disorganisation of the Family Structure.
"Exceptional post "my" darling. :D" - thank you, darling of "mine" :D!
"I don't possess you, I celebrate you as I celebrate love." - beautiful *bowing*!
Lady A, thank you ever so much for this outstanding comment: brilliant *bowing*!
Non-possessive Cheers
Hi D!
ReplyDelete"Max, I have heard of the "destiny" theories before, but to me, if we are already "pre-destined" to be the way we are, then why come to this earth life?" - we come to this earthly life to evolve and fulfil a mission. We come to learn, but this learning process is not at our will (for example, imagine a child learning how to write; he will want to learn at his own pace, whenever he wants, and make his own rules for this to take place; yet we know he has to learn in a certain time of the day, in a certain place, according to our rules so that he achieves what we know he must achieve: to know how to write)...God does the same with us.
But I understand what you are saying about choice cause many years I heard a theory: God pre-designs a destiny for us (the final goal), despite that He will test us (by building several roads that will lead to the same goal), He knows which one we'll choose and sits back to watch our reactions to our choices - if we will resist and make it to the end.
"I do think we might have been given certain tasks, or assignments, or missions to fulfill in this life, but I think it is still up to us whether or not we will do them. If we were pre-destined to be a certain way, then this life wouldn't truly be a test of our abilities and faith. :)" - you make a very good point here! But if you were pre-destined to fulfil the mission then the test would be to know if you are really capable of fulfilling it in this life or not; how many times you will have to return before you learn and do what you have to do.
Excellent, D! Just Excellent!
Cheers
Hi lovely Max!,
ReplyDeleteThanks for including me in your discussions, it is an honour.
Let's see how you dodged my question :
"because when He decides we get sick"
I said that this is an immoral view : that the idea of a "creator" that decides arbitrarily when people are to contract diseases (apparently having nothing to do with our modern understanding of germ theory and medicine) is a horrible idea. It necessitates a 'god' that kills innocent children at it's whim. A girl of 5 dying from leukemia cannot be blamed for her illness. Why then is she ill? Your 'god' did it right? You offer as a response :
"The Creator created life (that is why He is the Creator) and He can destroy it as well whenever He sees fit." This sounds Dictatorial to me! :)
Then you say :
"A small child dying of a terrible disease is sad, yes; but it is part of existence and its mysteries."
Really? Is that really good enough for you? It's just a "mystery" that someone you love is taken so cruelly from you? Thankfully, that hasn't been good enough for all of us...we've been learning about disease and how to combat it. It is thanks to advances in our medical knowledge that we have (for example) eradicated smallpox, or that it is rare now for a woman to die in childbirth. Infant mortality is minuscule compared to the "good old days" when humans barely reached 30 years before death.
You say :
"How can you speak of morality when you [...]deny the Source of it?"
It is demonstrable that morality does not come from an external source ; it is an evolving concept that is refined as we move forward as a society. In this way we have managed (almost) to cast aside the immoral doctrines of primitive belief systems...eg the subjugation of women, slavery, human/animal sacrifice, killing homosexuals/apostates/adulterers/etc, and many more. We know these thing to be wrong despite their warrant in ancient texts, because of the constantly shifting moral zeitgeist.(well, most of us, perhaps not the poster livingsword who seems to delight in the idea of anyone not believing in his particular idea of "god" will be cast into a lake of fire! How moral is that!)
It seems that your belief system is some sort of hybrid encompassing some eastern philosophy like Buddhism plus a monotheistic deity, perhaps christian. It's interesting how you have combined the concept of karma and reincarnation with an all powerful deity. Is it not apparent to you that you are inventing your own religion? Cherry picking the bits you like from other and combining them into a special "Max" religion? Remember, you are choosing what you believe, the only question is : do you have good reasons for it? If you spin around 20 times with your eyes closed and lie on the floor it seems like the world is spinning. Important question : how do you know it isn't? And you do know. I hope.
You try to shoehorn evolution in, it sounds a little wrong :
"but I would say that it is the continuation of the evolutionary cycle (which not always includes love)."
Why not?
Sorry to go on, but lastly I'd like to address your 'tagging' me as a nihilist:
I think you are misunderstanding the term. A nihilist is not just someone that disagrees with you...neither is it someone who requires evidence and good reasons for that which they believe. Nihilists argue that there is no objective morality, and I am the opposite of that. I see a beauty in our world, our universe, the relations between ourselves and in the art we create. I say we have purpose and reason enough to live and love and learn and discover, without resorting to primitive man's first attempt at an explanation of reality. I propose that morality is not handed down from some "Him" or even some "She", but it is something intrinsic to us as humans and you do us a great disservice by attributing our kindly actions to some intangible imaginary "thing", rather than admit what you are...a human, evolved, beautifully, to survive and live. Why invent, make up reasons and missions to make you feel more important?
abraço grande
I love you all
Manty
Hi Max,
ReplyDelete"Isn't possession 9/10ths of the law, meaning what you possess is yours?"
LOL. That was said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek. And yes that law was written by men, that's why I think it's funny.
"Do we really possess our thoughts, emotions, compassion intellect and the like? Possession encompasses 100% control...do we always control our emotions, compassion, intellect? No...so, they belong to us, they are not possessed by us."
You are right.
"*throwing you a kiss*!!"
Catching it.
"I think He belongs to us, yet we do not possess Him (could ever the creature possess the Creator?)."
I understand the distinction and I would even venture to say that the creature can possess the creator (by holding it in his heart) because the creator is also the creature. We are all in sync with the creator, thus there is no division. Do you think it is possible to belong to what we possess or possess what belongs to us?
"(He is the Ultimate Balance, and so He is Love and its opposite)...yes, we should behold such power, and we do, however we do not possess it...we have it inside (two different things)."
Then it possess us? LOL.
"families making its members disenfranchised (and the sense of non-belonging) are all part of the karma; which doesn't exclude the sense of belonging. You belong to that karmic family to fulfill a mission: be it burning karmic ties, or evolve, or actually do something for one of the members."
Again. I agree. And those karmic roots run deep throughout many lifetimes.
"I would agree that the society holds some level of disenfranchisement "that is crippling one's sense of being" because our society has lost its basic values as a consequence of the disorganisation of the Family Structure."
I hear you. It's sad but true.
"thank you, darling of "mine" :D!"
Touché!
Thank you for a brilliant brain bashing.
Belonging Cheers!
max,
ReplyDeleteI really love the concept of this post. Its an evaluation of things that we speak about on a daily basis and broken down. Great analysis and excellent writing!
-rubenh
Wonderful post, Max, as always,:-)
ReplyDeleteI'd like to think of "possession" as a "connection" instead of ownership. With our parents, friends, relations, usage of "My" is more of an acknowledgment that we are a part of them,- my mother, my father, my friend. I see it rather, as a "connector", a bridge of cause and effect, a result of relativity.
Why the need to possess, anyway? Sometimes, my cynical mind would consider "possession" to be an illusionary shelter that we all need to combat our fear of the unknown. Stuff that we consider to belong to us actually affects our views with our own self. It seems that the more one has- money, power, success, friends- the greater one's confidence and sense of security is... For me, in truth we own nothing..we didn't create our own self, we don't make the air we breathe...but it doesn't mean we are nothing, or we don't matter at all.. We co-create, when we make use of our gifts, we take but we give nonetheless..
Hi Manty :D!
ReplyDelete"Thanks for including me in your discussions, it is an honour." - don't mention it; the honour is mine!
"Let's see how you dodged my question :" - LOL LOL your sense of humour is fantastic! Let's see your counter-arguments....
"I said that this is an immoral view" - actually you asked "where is the morality in this idea?", you didn't state....
"A girl of 5 dying from leukemia cannot be blamed for her illness." - Karma; ever heard of it?
""The Creator created life (that is why He is the Creator) and He can destroy it as well whenever He sees fit." This sounds Dictatorial to me! :)" - if you mean it in a sense that He is a ruler Who has complete power, than yes, He could be dictatorial; but if you mean it as an Entity who behaves in a despotic fashion, than I would have to disagree with you; since He listen to the advice of no only humans but also of Angels (I suggest you read the great book: the Bible).
"Really? Is that really good enough for you?" - it is; for I have full understanding of what existence means. It means to be incarnated and disincarnate. What happens in between these two basic facts of life are mere details.
"It's just a "mystery" that someone you love is taken so cruelly from you?" - yes, it is. It is part of existence. And if I really love that person, and he/she was taken away so cruelly from me all I have to do is love his/her memory and pray for his/her soul to find the light. And stop feeling sorry for myself...life goes on.
"Thankfully, that hasn't been good enough for all of us...we've been learning about disease and how to combat it. It is thanks to advances in our medical knowledge that we have (for example) eradicated smallpox, or that it is rare now for a woman to die in childbirth." - yes, thank God for that! Now, what is the Source of knowledge?
"Infant mortality is minuscule compared to the "good old days" when humans barely reached 30 years before death." - in the "good old days" people lived up to 400 years...
"It is demonstrable that morality does not come from an external source ; it is an evolving concept that is refined as we move forward as a society." - would you agree that children are born pure (and I mean purity of mind)?
"In this way we have managed (almost) to cast aside the immoral doctrines of primitive belief systems...eg the subjugation of women, slavery, human/animal sacrifice, killing homosexuals/apostates/adulterers/etc, and many more." - "Subjugation of women" - women are subjugated until today (domestic violence, sexual violence, sexual trafficking, unequal pay etc).
"Slavery" - it still exists until today: Brazil (sugar cane industries); Europe, Asia, USA, Africa - sexual slavery; contracting illegal immigrants.
"Human/animal sacrifice" - in satanic rituals this is a common practice; in some religious rituals it is still a common practice. This is a nowadays issue...it wasn't cast and it will never be.
"killing homosexuals/apostates/adulterers" - Islamic world; bigots; and betrayed husbands do it.
It seems to me that this is not exclusive to "immoral doctrines of primitive belief systems" but inclusive of a corrupt and immoral human nature. What is your remedy to this?
"We know these thing to be wrong despite their warrant in ancient texts, because of the constantly shifting moral zeitgeist.(well, most of us, perhaps not the poster livingsword who seems to delight in the idea of anyone not believing in his particular idea of "god" will be cast into a lake of fire! How moral is that!)" - first, it is not "most of us" because the majority in this world is Christian (and so, believe in the same concept as Livingsword) which represents 33% of the world population; whereas the likes of you (or of what you appear to be) represent only 2.5% of the world population.
So, you said that "we know these things to be wrong" how do we know? And what is the source of this knowledge?
Plus, do you really grasp the depth of God's commandments? If you do, then you know that it is targeted at one people only. The Nations are not obliged to follow them.
Perhaps you would like to invite Livingsword to debate with you on this topic, I am sure he'd love to enlighten you.
"It seems that your belief system is some sort of hybrid encompassing some eastern philosophy like Buddhism plus a monotheistic deity, perhaps christian." - lol although Buddhism and Christianity are two extremely interesting belief systems, I do not follow any of them, nor I enjoy milkshake of belief systems.
"It's interesting how you have combined the concept of karma and reincarnation with an all powerful deity. Is it not apparent to you that you are inventing your own religion?" - lol I wish I were that creative, darling...I think you need to read more about religions. There is more than Christianity (which entails several denominations, that often quarrel between themselves), Buddhism (and its different denominations), Muslims (with its two denominations), Judaism (with its many groups and philosophies) and Hinduism...
"Cherry picking the bits you like from other and combining them into a special "Max" religion?" - LOL LOL I liked this one "special 'Max' religion" LOL...as I said, I wish I were that creative.
"but I would say that it is the continuation of the evolutionary cycle (which not always includes love)." Why not?" - because soul evolution doesn't always include love. Haven't you heard of people who never loved anyone? Are they lesser people? No.
"Sorry to go on, but lastly I'd like to address your 'tagging' me as a nihilist:" - you are utterly forgiven...carry on...
"I think you are misunderstanding the term." - Nihilism = "rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief."...
"A nihilist is not just someone that disagrees with you..." - Manty, I can see that you read some of the comments here, so you must have realised that not all of them concord with me. I welcome different ideas, arguments, opinions, values and beliefs for it enriches my intellect. I apologise if I offended you in any way possible, it was not my intention (and if I did it was extremely rude of me); however you repudiate God, you wrongly called Him a "creature", and you labeled as immoral a Sacred Book/Books (sacred to many people here)...it seems to me that you fit into the definition of "nihilism" just perfectly.
"neither is it someone who requires evidence and good reasons for that which they believe." - It depends on what your mind is willing to accept as evidence and good reasons "for that which they believe". And the fact that you are asking for proof is proof enough that your mind is not willing to accept any proof (which is quite obvious).
"Nihilists argue that there is no objective morality, and I am the opposite of that." - nihilists also reject all theories of religious belief. And you seem to do so. Therefore you fit into the profile.
"I say we have purpose and reason enough to live and love and learn and discover, without resorting to primitive man's first attempt at an explanation of reality." - so what is the exact purpose and the reason to live? Why are we here?
"I propose that morality is not handed down from some "Him" or even some "She", but it is something intrinsic to us as humans and you do us a great disservice by attributing our kindly actions to some intangible imaginary "thing", rather than admit what you are...a human, evolved, beautifully, to survive and live." - I think that 97,5% of the world denies your proposal, Manty. But if it is intrinsic to humans it is because it is carved on the soul: do you believe we have a soul? And what is the source of that soul?
"abraço grande" - obrigada *abraço grande*! :D
Manty, thanks for this challenging conversation *bowing*!
Cheers
Hi Alexys,
ReplyDelete"LOL. That was said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek. And yes that law was written by men, that's why I think it's funny." - LOL you are right: it is funny....
"Catching it." - :D
"I understand the distinction and I would even venture to say that the creature can possess the creator (by holding it in his heart) because the creator is also the creature." - although I do not agree fully with this, I must admit that it is a good theory (it makes sense) - we could say that when He blew His spirit into our nostrils we became a bit Him and so He is us...but then we have matter: this alters everything.
"Do you think it is possible to belong to what we possess or possess what belongs to us?" - if we do not control something then we do not possess it, if we don't possess it how can we belong to it? We can have something that belongs to us but we can not possess it, since we do not control it.
"Then it possess us? LOL." - LOL if it is the Love of God, yes it possesses us (since it does control us), if it is human love, no...it doesn't possess us, since it holds no control over us.
"Again. I agree. And those karmic roots run deep throughout many lifetimes." - yes, absolutely!!
"Touché!" - LOL ;)
"Thank you for a brilliant brain bashing." - I am the one to thank you, Lady A *bowing*! :D
Affinity Cheers
Hi Maximus…..
ReplyDeleteThanks for the tea and cookies…this is starting to make me feel like Santa…you know he is coming soon Max… :)
You said:
"However I would suggest to you that He in His Sovereign will gifts us with our flesh and blood bodies to be freely used in His glorification. He owns our bodies but He allows us to be free agents, for example He does not force us to sin we do that of our own free will." - yes, He gave us free will, but that doesn't mean that we actually possess it; since free will is not entirely free. Many times what we think to be a consequence of free will, of choice, in truth is not...it is all part of a Divine pre-conceived plan. Plus, free will is not the only factor influencing events: you have karma, destiny...and who controls these? Him.
I respond:
:) Where do I start with all the endless possibilities here? Hmmmm… We are not absolutely free since God is all powerful we cannot be absolutely free however he does gift us with free will under His Sovereignty. Are people responsible for their own sin or does God force them to sin? People sin of their own free will and are responsible for their own sin. Does God have a Master plan for the universe (and indeed every person) yes and His plan is so awesome that it has room for our free will within it, actually our free will is a big part of the Plan….God does not want puppets, it you want fatalism and forcing to sin you have to speak to the Muslim’s (“as Allah wills”)…. With all due respect my lovely friend karma in the Easter mystical meaning such as reincarnation does not exist *me ducking a wet tea bag charitably thrown in my general direction*
You said:
"Our perishable bodies will be resurrected imperishable just as Jesus was resurrected in His imperishable glorified physical body so shall we be…however although Jesus followers bodies will be resurrected for eternity in Heaven others that reject His free gift thru relationship will be resurrected for eternity in the Lake of Fire." - I understand that this is a Christian belief, and I respect it, but in this case we are talking about possessing our bodies, which we don't - they belong to God (since He created us), not to us.
In reference to your comment: Jesus' body did perish, didn't it? At least at first, so it was perishable. The fact that it resurrected (as it is written) doesn't make it imperishable, only the object of a Divine sign.
I respond:
Jesus physical glorified resurrected body is imperishable (you don’t have to respect it my dear hammer me on it if you like :) In regards to ownership in an absolute sense God owns everything. However under His Sovereignty He has willed that we have freedom in correlation to our bodies. So for example when a person is resurrected to Heaven or resurrected to judgment and the Lake of Fire the body form here on Earth is “remodeled” for the new life there is a direct correlation from my body here to my body there, as a seed to a plant for example….The new body comes from the old body.
You said:
"Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, - - Hebrews 9:27 TNIV" - indeed, once you leave your body that is it, you can never get it back...when you return you will have a different shell. When you perish you will face "trial" in order to know if whether you fulfilled your mission or not, or how far you are from it or not.
I respond:
People die only one time they do not come back in another body….notice it is their destiny “to die once”….I thought you would like the use of the word destiny….
Max it is a pleasure to be able have such forthright conversations, thanks for your generous hospitality….
You're so right, it's more a sense of belonging than actual possession.
ReplyDeleteI noticed that I have trouble with possessives too. Like when I say "home", or "my home". Depends on whom I'm talking to, it can be France, Canada or somewhere else.
"My work", "my students", "my life"... just weird way of describing of surroundings.
Hey Ruben :D!
ReplyDelete"I really love the concept of this post. Its an evaluation of things that we speak about on a daily basis and broken down. Great analysis and excellent writing!" - thank you very much, dear *bowing*! I am so glad you loved it :D!
And thanks for having dropped by and left such kind words *bowing*!
Cheers
Hey Leo :D!
ReplyDelete"Wonderful post, Max, as always,:-)" - aaah, thank you *bowing*! You are so kind! :)
"I'd like to think of "possession" as a "connection" instead of ownership. With our parents, friends, relations, usage of "My" is more of an acknowledgment that we are a part of them,- my mother, my father, my friend. I see it rather, as a "connector", a bridge of cause and effect, a result of relativity." - this is beautiful!! I think you are the first to speak of connection...and it is the right way to look at "MY" mom, dad, relatives in this fashion...thumbs up :D!
"Why the need to possess, anyway? Sometimes, my cynical mind would consider "possession" to be an illusionary shelter that we all need to combat our fear of the unknown." - some would say that it is the wish to be God like (since He is the only One Who possesses everything).
"Stuff that we consider to belong to us actually affects our views with our own self. It seems that the more one has- money, power, success, friends- the greater one's confidence and sense of security is..." - an illusory confidence and sense of security. Confidence and security commence within, the moment you need exterior things to provide these two...you enter through the threshold of illusion...
"For me, in truth we own nothing..we didn't create our own self, we don't make the air we breathe...but it doesn't mean we are nothing, or we don't matter at all.. We co-create, when we make use of our gifts, we take but we give nonetheless.." - perfect! this is so perfect, but I won't add anything else to it....*bowing*!
Leo, darling, thank you so much for having shared your thoughts with us, your precious thoughts :D!
I hope you are feeling better :D!
Cheers
Hi LSus!
ReplyDelete"Thanks for the tea and cookies…this is starting to make me feel like Santa…you know he is coming soon Max… :)" - don't mention it...have some more, please! LOL LOL I shall make no comments on Santa, because I do not wish to shock Christian children (the ones that believe in it)...
":) Where do I start with all the endless possibilities here? Hmmmm…" - lol feel free to start from whichever angle you'd like :)....
"We are not absolutely free since God is all powerful we cannot be absolutely free however he does gift us with free will under His Sovereignty." - ok, I can go with that...go on...
"Are people responsible for their own sin or does God force them to sin? People sin of their own free will and are responsible for their own sin." - God sometimes tests people by making them face sin...the question is: if He hadn't decided to test them...would they have sinned? Perhaps not (but if they would sin, wouldn't it be God's fault? Since, if He hadn't they would probably had not sinned).
"God does not want puppets, it you want fatalism and forcing to sin you have to speak to the Muslim’s (“as Allah wills”)…." - I would gladly speak to the Muslims if they'd provide me a very good and respectable debate, such as you do, LS. I have no issues with them.
I do believe in fate, but you also know (because we already had this conversation at Life) that nothing is unalterable since God changes His mind whenever He sees fit (the Bible has innumerous examples of this, as you well know).
"With all due respect my lovely friend karma in the Easter mystical meaning such as reincarnation does not exist *me ducking a wet tea bag charitably thrown in my general direction*" - LOL LOL no need to duck, LS (I won't harm you for offering me your sincere thoughts on this). Where is it written in the Bible, with the exact words "Reincarnation doesn't exist"? Yet, it suggests that it does exist "That which has been already and that which will be has already been, for God seeks what has passed by" (Ecclesiastes 3:15) of course, if one allows himself to read it with an open mind.
"Jesus physical glorified resurrected body is imperishable" - it turned into energy (although it materialised to show the Divine Sign), and energy is imperishable, yes.
"So for example when a person is resurrected to Heaven or resurrected to judgment and the Lake of Fire the body form here on Earth is “remodeled” for the new life there is a direct correlation from my body here to my body there, as a seed to a plant for example….The new body comes from the old body." - I don't think I quite follow you on this one (my mind keeps asking what "body there?" when "there" isn't any body), would you please explain better?
"People die only one time they do not come back in another body….notice it is their destiny “to die once”….I thought you would like the use of the word destiny…" - yes, I know your theory on this...so, what would be the purpose to be born on earth? To follow Jesus?
"Max it is a pleasure to be able have such forthright conversations, thanks for your generous hospitality…" - LS, you are most welcome *bowing*!
And thank you for these great debates; I missed them already :D!
Cheers
Salut Zhu :D!
ReplyDelete"You're so right, it's more a sense of belonging than actual possession." - *bowing*...
"I noticed that I have trouble with possessives too. Like when I say "home", or "my home". Depends on whom I'm talking to, it can be France, Canada or somewhere else." - that is a great example! And I can understand the conflict of using the possessives too...cause you may start debating with yourself if one place is really "your" home when you began to feel that "your" home is another (where you feel comfortable and safe)...very good point!
""My work", "my students", "my life"... just weird way of describing of surroundings." - indeed...
Zhu, you added another extremely important point to this debate: thank you so much *bowing*!
Cheers
Hey Max, I wrote a long and prolix reply but upon reflection, I didn't think it would get us anywhere.
ReplyDeleteSo, I'll thank you for your hospitality and sign off with a quote from a well known gentleman :
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
— Buddha
Good luck! x
M
Hi Max. Consider this! As my arms are joined to my body, I'd have every right to say that my arms belong to me. Well, they'd look silly on anyone else!
ReplyDeleteNow for the mother and child comparison. The unborn child is joined to the mother by cord; wouldn't it be fair to say that the mother can call her child, "my child"? The "my" is only a referral to the bond between family member or partner.
For 99.9% of mothers, even though ambilical cords to their loved ones are physically cut at birth, they still have them mentally attached after birth; in this world and the next.
Take Care,
Peter
Hey Manty!
ReplyDeleteProlix, or not, your words are welcome here. As for if they would get us somewhere or not...my friend, other's thoughts, and views, always lead me somewhere *bowing*!
"So, I'll thank you for your hospitality and sign off with a quote from a well known gentleman" - you are most welcome :D!
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."" - thank you so much for having shared this well known quote. It is not an invitation to ignore what is the intellectual product of others; to ignore spiritual paths and its teachings; to ignore intrinsic knowledge...but rather an invitation to make use of reason & intuition before choosing what path to follow, including Buddha's own philosophy (I am sure he didn't want people to follow his teachings just because people, or himself, said it was the right thing to do; but because people - after observation and analysis - felt to be the right thing to do).
Thanks for having brought these words to us; I am sure it is a delight for many to recall Buddha's teachings :D!
Cheers
Hi Peter :D!
ReplyDelete"Consider this! As my arms are joined to my body, I'd have every right to say that my arms belong to me. Well, they'd look silly on anyone else!" - LOL true. However, your body isn't exactly yours, it belongs to the Creator; so you cannot possess it. Besides, since possession involves control, would you say that you have utter control over what happens to your limbs?
"Now for the mother and child comparison. The unborn child is joined to the mother by cord; wouldn't it be fair to say that the mother can call her child, "my child"? The "my" is only a referral to the bond between family member or partner." - well, that mother's child is not hers because she is an extension of the child's true Possessor, plus he/she will be someone else's husband, wife and thus cut the umbilical cord. But if one refers to "my" as a bond, affection, connection then it is quite valid indeed.
"For 99.9% of mothers, even though ambilical cords to their loved ones are physically cut at birth, they still have them mentally attached after birth; in this world and the next." - yes, you are right...but as you said "it is a referral to the bond" and not possession.
Excellent comment, mate (as always) :D!!! Thank you ever so much, Peter *bowing*!
Cheers
Hi Max! "since possession involves control, would you say that you have utter control over what happens to your limbs?" Well, from where I sit I do!
ReplyDeleteThe creator doesn't have the final say in what I get up to nor can he enforce his powers upon me here on earth. I have a God given right to live out my life as I see fit.
As long as I treat my body and soul as he would want me to, I shouldn't have a problem with him down the track, when we hopefully meet eye to eye.
Yes, all of this sounds a bit over the top but it is written with good intentions in mind.
Your friend,
Peter
Hey Peter!
ReplyDelete"Well, from where I sit I do!" - and what if you are walking in the streets minding your own business, thinking that you control life, and then suddenly an accident occurs and you lose your limbs? Did you control that?
"The creator doesn't have the final say in what I get up to nor can he enforce his powers upon me here on earth. I have a God given right to live out my life as I see fit." - yes, that seems to be the general idea of living...
"As long as I treat my body and soul as he would want me to, I shouldn't have a problem with him down the track, when we hopefully meet eye to eye." - lol I hear you! lol...
"Yes, all of this sounds a bit over the top but it is written with good intentions in mind." - I know, mate! Don't worry :D!
I enjoy listening to your thoughts, my dear friend :D!
Cheers
Max my dear you have such a amazing brain! You know what you wrote is so true. You know I really don't want to posses anything, I just want to love it, enjoy it, etc etc, and leave a trail of happy memorable times when I am gone. Anna :) PS Nice to be here as always Max.
ReplyDeleteAnna, darling :D!
ReplyDelete"Max my dear you have such a amazing brain!" - why, thank you so much *bowing*! That is quite a compliment (should I blush? lol)!!
"You know I really don't want to posses anything, I just want to love it, enjoy it, etc etc, and leave a trail of happy memorable times when I am gone. Anna :)" - oooh, so beautiful!! I totally understand you, darling...just love and enjoy it *hug*! You deserve it, you really do :D!
"PS Nice to be here as always Max." - It is nice to have you here, Anna! I missed you :)!
Thanks for your input, it is always a true pleasure to hear your thoughts!
Cheers