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Mel, a fortnight ago, offered me a new idea for an article – for which I am ever so grateful. He suggested that I’d try to answer to “Is our soul our own possession?” I have said before that we possess nothing, since we do not control anything. Nevertheless, I am going to treat “possession” according to Alexys’ and Leo’s point of view (affection and connection respectively).
Before incarnating, our spirit is summoned to be briefed about what there is to be done, and what it is expected of it, while on earth. After this process it becomes a soul (i.e. Soul = spirit + assignment).
Who owns the spirit (thus exerting absolute control over it)? Its Creator does.
Who designs the assignment given to the spirit? God and His council do; even though they seem to grant a Limited Free Pass to souls so that they can manage the way they wish to fulfil the Divine Purpose (some of you will call this free will).
Now we are souls and we incarnate. Each and one of us has its own purpose here (although our individual purpose may serve a common one); meaning that we have our own soul...but do we possess it?
If we work under the assumption that “possession = affection + connection” we may state that indeed we do possess our souls. Please, allow me to expound this theory:
Possession as affection: as spirits we may become attached to our assignment (individual mission) and its components (family, friends, lovers, spouses etc) in such a way that many times (after death) we find it hard to detach ourselves from it. The levels of affection are extremely high, and this sentiment will be present for eternity in our memories...I repeat: memories. Thus, under the affection assumption, we do possess our soul.
Possession as connection: as spirits we absorb, through the soul, a lot of knowledge, experiences, feelings, energies (through relationships) that will contribute to our evolutionary process. These tools won’t just go away upon our death; for as we have seen the memory of them is connected to our soul, that after being judged and accounted for, returns to its state as a spirit keeping thus its memories, which belong to it only. This, under the connection theory, we also possess our soul.
Pray, bear in mind that we are assuming that Possession = affection + connection. But what is the answer to Mel’s question if we take possession as ownership + absolute control?
The memories are ours indeed; but we do not exert absolute control over them, since once we return to earth they are deleted by the Divine Council (except for very rare cases): not only we don’t have any recollection of past lives but we are also more than willing to reject the entire reincarnation process (even though we can’t seem to explain why the so-called coincidences occur; why the dejá vu sensations; why some people are detested by us and liked by others [and vice-versa], why a certain person is a soul mate and its real meaning etc, etc).
Is our soul our own possession? In an absolute sense; no, it isn’t.
Image: St. Matthew and the Angel by Caravaggio
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Hello Maximus…..
ReplyDeleteA very entertaining article….
Respectfully…In reading your thoughts here I cannot comment at this time upon the finer points before addressing a fundamental point to provide infrastructure for this dialogue.
You are using an image named St. Matthew and the Angel by Caravaggio. It is of Matthew receiving God’s Word thus the Authority of God (He being the Author) His “stamp of approval” is guaranteed by that Authority.
Upon what authority are you basing your concepts?
Are these simply your own presuppositions? Where have you garnered these ideas from? Is there a book or a person you can point me to at say Wikipedia for example so I can assess the validity of their truth claims?
For example when I explain my ideas you know they are derived from the Bible as I am a Jesus follower and I continually appeal to the Authority I believe the Bible has (one may argue that my trust in the Authority of the Bible is misplaced but at least they know the source to which my arguments are appealing and Who I believe the Author to be).
In reading these theories in your article I can eliminate the Bible as the prime source as the ideas are alien and attack the Bible’s teachings. So your article words and image begs the question….from what authority are you deriving these ideas?
Hi Max.............
ReplyDeleteAre you ready???
“Mel, a fortnight ago, offered me a new idea for an article – for which I am ever so grateful.” - You are ever so welcome. I am honored that you took my suggestion.
“Before incarnating, our spirit is summoned to be briefed about what there is to be done, and what it is expected of it, while on earth. After this process it becomes a soul (i.e. Soul = spirit + assignment).” - I hate to be negative, but I have to ask…..in your view (you sound like an authority, meaning, you KNOW as opposed to you BELIEVE.) Or am I missing something here?
“Who owns the spirit (thus exerting absolute control over it)? Its Creator does.” - I refer to my prior comment.
“Who designs the assignment given to the spirit? God and His council do” – Council????;
“Now we are souls and we incarnate. Each and one of us has its own purpose here (although our individual purpose may serve a common one); meaning that we have our own soul...but do we possess it?” - That is the question, however, is possession a physical term? Can it really be attributed to the non-physical?
“Possession as affection: as spirits we may become attached to our assignment (individual mission) and its components (family, friends, lovers, spouses etc) in such a way that many times (after death) we find it hard to detach ourselves from it. The levels of affection are extremely high, and this sentiment will be present for eternity in our memories...I repeat: memories. “ - Aren’t memories a physical world phenomenon? I believe that in the non-physical, memories, per say do not exist, just the overriding “mission” result is apparent in a way that we cannot understand.
“Thus, under the affection assumption, we do possess our soul.” - Under your logic, I would agree
“Possession as connection: as spirits we absorb, through the soul, a lot of knowledge, experiences, feelings, energies (through relationships) that will contribute to our evolutionary process. These tools won’t just go away upon our death; for as we have seen the memory of them is connected to our soul, that after being judged and accounted for, returns to its state as a spirit keeping thus its memories, which belong to it only. This, under the connection theory, we also possess our soul.” - I am still having trouble with memories, per say.
“Pray, bear in mind that we are assuming that Possession = affection + connection. But what is the answer to Mel’s question if we take possession as ownership + absolute control?
The memories are ours indeed; but we do not exert absolute control over them, since once we return to earth they are deleted by the Divine Council (except for very rare cases):” - Now, that is getting more to what I believe, however, I hate to do this to you, but that brings up many additional questions:
1 – Do animals have souls?
2 – If yes, can we reincarnate into another species?
3 – Life on other planets – souls or no souls?
4 – Are we spiritually compatible with “aliens”?
5 – Since everything physical has a beginning and an end, do souls have a beginning and an end?
6 - If yes, what was before the beginning and what is after the end?
7 – If no, what manner of souls were there with no physical presence?
8 – And of course the “Biggy” What is the souls ultimate mission?
9 – And as a follow-up, what is beyond the ultimate mission?
I could go on, but I won’t ……. I your head ready to explode yet? (LOL) I can’t help it, you just bring the spiritual questioning side of me.
not only we don’t have any recollection of past lives but we are also more than willing to reject the entire reincarnation process (even though we can’t seem to explain why the so-called coincidences occur; why the dejá vu sensations; why some people are detested by us and liked by others [and vice-versa], why a certain person is a soul mate and its real meaning etc, etc).
Is our soul our own possession? In an absolute sense; no, it isn’t.
Hi LSus! :D
ReplyDelete"A very entertaining article…." - lol why, thank you *bowing*!
"Respectfully…In reading your thoughts here I cannot comment at this time upon the finer points before addressing a fundamental point to provide infrastructure for this dialogue." - all right, I can certainly understand that...
"You are using an image named St. Matthew and the Angel by Caravaggio. It is of Matthew receiving God’s Word thus the Authority of God (He being the Author) His “stamp of approval” is guaranteed by that Authority." - yes, a beautiful image. I guess you can read it that way...I looked at it (regardless the title of this work) differently: a human being receiving guidance by the Angels; being inspired by them (thus, by God).
"Upon what authority are you basing your concepts?" - well, I did call my concepts "assumptions", theories, so, I believe it is all a product of my mind.
"Are these simply your own presuppositions? Where have you garnered these ideas from? Is there a book or a person you can point me to at say Wikipedia for example so I can assess the validity of their truth claims?" - LOL your first question is the one reflecting the apparent reality. But I can endeavour to answer your second question as well: like the image, I too received an inspiration to write this text...I was contemplating the sky, in my balcony, trying to figure out how to answer Mel...and then "BAM!" it was all clear to me... :)
"For example when I explain my ideas you know they are derived from the Bible as I am a Jesus follower and I continually appeal to the Authority I believe the Bible has (one may argue that my trust in the Authority of the Bible is misplaced but at least they know the source to which my arguments are appealing and Who I believe the Author to be)." - I do not need the Bible to tell me that the Lord is the Authority, or what He wants me to do here...I was born knowing that the Lord is the Auhority, and what He wants me to do (which is: to be a decent human being. I may not always managed to be so, but I do try). I also think beyond the Bible, LS; I let my mind explore all its intellectual possibilities. I let it contact its essence (and for this you may read any book by Aleister Crowley) and then pour the received information.
"In reading these theories in your article I can eliminate the Bible as the prime source as the ideas are alien and attack the Bible’s teachings. So your article words and image begs the question….from what authority are you deriving these ideas?" - I derive these ideas from the Source.
LS, I feel like the good old days are coming back LOL! :D Thanks for this fantastic conversation!!
Cheers
LOL hi Mel....
ReplyDelete"Are you ready???" - LOL I am...just shoot!!
"You are ever so welcome. I am honored that you took my suggestion." - *bowing* any good suggestion from you is to be taken!
"I hate to be negative, but I have to ask…..in your view (you sound like an authority, meaning, you KNOW as opposed to you BELIEVE.) Or am I missing something here?" - go ahead and ask...well, what can I reply, Mel? My belief has become knowledge...that is all I can tell you for now.
"I refer to my prior comment." - Ah, this one is easy...if God created us all, Whom created souls and spirits? He did.
"Council????" - yes, His angels, Angels, Higher Spirits, Lower Spirits...[oh boy, this article will be a sensation LOL]
"That is the question, however, is possession a physical term? Can it really be attributed to the non-physical?" - it can be attributed to the non-physical in a sense of affection and connection to life's components (because our memories are ours and nobody else's - our experiences and vision of existence is exclusive to us); but if we talk about possession in a sense of ownership then, no, it can't be attributed to the non-physical, since it holds no control over the memory of those past affections and connections. In a physical term...it can't be attributed either, since memories are completely deleted (in most cases).
"Aren’t memories a physical world phenomenon? I believe that in the non-physical, memories, per say do not exist, just the overriding “mission” result is apparent in a way that we cannot understand." - no, memories go beyond the physical world...in fact, they are the only thing that accompany the soul upon death (have you ever heard of regression?). How can we be judged, after death, if we do not have any recollection of what we did on earth? How would we know that we were having a fair trial?
"I am still having trouble with memories, per say." - tell me about your doubts, and I will try to explain better...
"Now, that is getting more to what I believe, however, I hate to do this to you, but that brings up many additional questions:" - lol Mel, don't hate it...it's ok...we are just talking here. So, let's try to answer your questions (after all, this is your day)...
"1 – Do animals have souls?" - there are some philosophies of life that believe that animals do have souls. As for me, I am still thinking about it.
"2 – If yes, can we reincarnate into another species?" - again, some philosophies tend to believe that yes, we can reincarnate in another species. But I, personally, find it hard to accept it.
"3 – Life on other planets – souls or no souls?" - if God created everything: souls.
"4 – Are we spiritually compatible with “aliens”?" - we are spiritually compatible with everything that the Lord has created. The Source is One.
"5 – Since everything physical has a beginning and an end, do souls have a beginning and an end?" - well, God made us to His image (= soul-wise). God is eternal, so are we. However, if He wishes so, I believe He can destroy us, yes.
"6 - If yes, what was before the beginning and what is after the end?" - God.
"7 – If no, what manner of souls were there with no physical presence?" - what do you mean?
"8 – And of course the “Biggy” What is the souls ultimate mission?" - evolve so that they can come closer to understand God.
"9 – And as a follow-up, what is beyond the ultimate mission?" - The fulfillment of the Plan.
"I could go on, but I won’t ……. I your head ready to explode yet? (LOL) I can’t help it, you just bring the spiritual questioning side of me." - LOL LOL no, not yet! Keep it coming LOL LOL! No, problem...this is like a spiritual SAT for me LOL!
"Is our soul our own possession? In an absolute sense; no, it isn’t." - no, it isn't.
Mel, thank you very much for this fantastic, amazing, mind challenging comment (I could spend the whole day in this lol), thanks :D!
Cheers
Hello Maximus….
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with the creative endowment of the Caravaggio art it still does position the article in a certain dispensation of concepts such as God inspiring the writing of the New Testament and entire Bible for that matter…God being the “Guarantor” of the Authenticity and Authority.
You said:
"Upon what authority are you basing your concepts?" - well, I did call my concepts "assumptions", theories, so, I believe it is all a product of my mind.
I respond:
I respect and appreciate that response, very helpful and explanatory.
You said:
I was contemplating the sky, in my balcony, trying to figure out how to answer Mel...and then "BAM!" it was all clear to me...
I respond:
LOL I’m going to have to pay more attention to your other conversations! LOL (Bad Livingsword bad! *slap on wrist*) LOL Are you invoking God inspiration here? (as in the sense of the Bible) You know there is a big Christian radio program that uses BAM (Bible Answer Man) so better watch out for copywrite! LOL….
You said:
I do not need the Bible to tell me that the Lord is the Authority, or what He wants me to do here...I was born knowing that the Lord is the Auhority, and what He wants me to do (which is: to be a decent human being. I may not always managed to be so, but I do try). I also think beyond the Bible, LS; I let my mind explore all its intellectual possibilities. I let it contact its essence (and for this you may read any book by Aleister Crowley) and then pour the received information.
I respond:
Ok it seems here that you claim Divine inspiration, fair enough, would you like to give me information that backs up your claim? Excellent thanks for naming Aleister Crowley I am aware of him (though not indepth) I will read up on him as he is in Wikipedia :)
Wow your being very forthright here…..
You said:
I derive these ideas from the Source.
I respond:
Wow you receive this from the giant electronics chain store The Source?!!! Just a little brevity on a deep topic… :)
You said:
LS, I feel like the good old days are coming back LOL! :D Thanks for this fantastic conversation!!
I respond:
LOL I thought you would think so but your excellent answers have short circuited it. You passed along two essential pieces of information that allow me to carry on with a deeper look at the rest of the article, thanks! I will compare your thoughts to the Blade (Bible) to see if there is some common ground! So let me continue here…..
You said:
Before incarnating, our spirit is summoned to be briefed about what there is to be done, and what it is expected of it, while on earth. After this process it becomes a soul (i.e. Soul = spirit + assignment).
I respond:
This is not in harmony with the Bible. The terms soul and spirit are interchangeable in the Bible in regards to humans. We do not have a warm up strategy session when we are conceived by our parents we come into being. Question in your belief system were is the spirit before the strategy meeting?
You said:
Who owns the spirit (thus exerting absolute control over it)? Its Creator does.
Who designs the assignment given to the spirit? God and His council do; even though they seem to grant a Limited Free Pass to souls so that they can manage the way they wish to fulfil the Divine Purpose (some of you will call this free will).
I respond:
As the Creator is the Creator, Designer, Sustainer and Owner of His entire creation including us and He has all the omni’s to be in control so it is true that in an absolute sense He is in control of our souls but He in His Sovereignty allows us freedom and personal identity. He will not rape us of our identity we have it forever (at the starting point of our personal creation) as a gift from the loving Creator.
You said:
Now we are souls and we incarnate. Each and one of us has its own purpose here (although our individual purpose may serve a common one); meaning that we have our own soul...but do we possess it?
If we work under the assumption that “possession = affection + connection” we may state that indeed we do possess our souls. Please, allow me to expound this theory:
I respond:
The soul is created at the exact instance our physical form initiates not before not after, we are a person at conception…You said “Each and one of us has its own purpose” you called a person an “it” this seems to indicated lack of individual personhood, identity.
You said:
Possession as affection: as spirits we may become attached to our assignment (individual mission) and its components (family, friends, lovers, spouses etc) in such a way that many times (after death) we find it hard to detach ourselves from it. The levels of affection are extremely high, and this sentiment will be present for eternity in our memories...I repeat: memories. Thus, under the affection assumption, we do possess our soul.
I respond:
Reincarnation is not supported by the Bible (“just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment”- - Hebrews 9:27). It is true that we will consistently keep our identity into either Heaven or the Lake of Fire depending on a person’s eternal destination. There is no “second chance” on the other side.
You said:
Possession as connection: as spirits we absorb, through the soul, a lot of knowledge, experiences, feelings, energies (through relationships) that will contribute to our evolutionary process. These tools won’t just go away upon our death; for as we have seen the memory of them is connected to our soul, that after being judged and accounted for, returns to its state as a spirit keeping thus its memories, which belong to it only. This, under the connection theory, we also possess our soul.
I respond:
Under your religious system does a person remember everything they have experienced form life here on Earth or does it all get deleted? What does that process look like? Do the various component s just get scrambled or do they get shared? Are we being judged after every life here on Earth and only get to stay on the other side if we accomplish “our mission”?
You said:
Pray, bear in mind that we are assuming that Possession = affection + connection. But what is the answer to Mel’s question if we take possession as ownership + absolute control?
The memories are ours indeed; but we do not exert absolute control over them, since once we return to earth they are deleted by the Divine Council (except for very rare cases): not only we don’t have any recollection of past lives but we are also more than willing to reject the entire reincarnation process (even though we can’t seem to explain why the so-called coincidences occur; why the dejá vu sensations; why some people are detested by us and liked by others [and vice-versa], why a certain person is a soul mate and its real meaning etc, etc).
I respond:
Ok you answered the deleted question. Please name the Divine Council.
Reincarnation is opposed to the Biblical view (“just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment”- - Hebrews 9:27) which teaches resurrection. Speaking of which the resurrection of Jesus contradicts your concept as Jesus knew Who He was after His resurrection (is He one of those rare cases?) Also Jesus teaches resurrection not reincarnation:
"I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even though they die; - - John 11:25
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
The Bible also instructs us: Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. - -1 John 2:23
The Greek word used here for denies means: to not know in relationship, to refuse relationship, to deny, to contradict, not to accept, to reject, to refuse something offered, to deny a genuine claim
The Greek word for “confesses” means: confess, agreement, to have an accurate understanding of, to ascent and consent, acknowledge an understanding of the reality of the state of relationship, an intimate support of a relationship declaration.
It is a trusting in who the other says who they are and what they as a person are in reality about.
I reject the concept of reincarnation because the bible denies reincarnation and teaches resurrection. I have seen no evidence that would lead me to believe in reincarnation. Or to receive the cruelty of such a system based upon religious “good deeds”.
You said:
Is our soul our own possession? In an absolute sense; no, it isn’t.
I respond:
I agree that in an absolute sense our soul is no tour own but belongs to God but under His Sovereign will He gifts us this free soul. For example God does not force us to sin….
A very interesting conversation Maximus! Thanks for this opportunity!!!
Holy crap, I started reading some of the comments and thought, I think I'll pass on this one,lol, a little too deep, then I thought, maybe that's part of the problem.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I look at this whole Question from the viewpoint as a born again Christian, whew eliminates the reincarnation aspect.
Is our soul our own possession? Well it all depends on your definition of possession, I possess it, so it's mine, uber simplistic, hey that's how I get through life.
Now, do I have ultimate control over it? not at all, how can I have ultimate control over something I don't understand?
I woke up one day and became aware, what's with that? There has to be something out there that knows all the answers because let me tell you we as humankind do not, I don't even think the LHC at CERN is going to answer the basic question, how did it all start?lol.
To sum it all up, no we don't possess our souls because we do not have the ultimate control over it, I know this probably isn't making any sense to you, it barely does to me,lol.
According to my own weird philosophy, I own my soul, but a lot of people helped me build it. Ancestor probably, people close to me, experiences, good and bad... we are the summary of our experiences and feeling.
ReplyDeleteInteresting question Max... and Mel!
Hey Bob!
ReplyDeleteExcellent comment!
Blade Comment Award of the Day!
So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.
- - Galatians 5:1
It is a beautiful thing to live the transforming life of freedom…
Hi Max,
ReplyDeleteHow lovely, I got a mention. Thanks.
This post falls on my ears like a beautiful sonnet. Whether we construe it as possession or suggestion, I think that perhaps we should examine our role as Soul. Why are we here? I think the main reason is to love, simply put, but other agendas (some recessed in our karmic memory) are intermingled with our goal of love.
How do we really know that we don't possess our Souls? Is there any reason why we can't possess it? Any reason why the creator did not gift our Soul to us out of love? We exist because God loves us.
I understand your cogent argument. If we can possess our Souls through affection and connection then why can't we possess it through special permission from God, if you will. For example, what if we were on the Divine Council, then would be possess our Souls? Sort of like being on the Supreme Court. We are among the chosen and we wield (spiritual) power as guided by the Divine.
"The memories are ours indeed; but we do not exert absolute control over them, since once we return to earth they are deleted by the Divine Council (except for very rare cases): not only we don’t have any recollection of past lives but we are also more than willing to reject the entire reincarnation process (even though we can’t seem to explain why the so-called coincidences occur; why the dejá vu sensations; why some people are detested by us and liked by others [and vice-versa]..."
Agreed. Great passage.
"Is our soul our own possession? In an absolute sense; no, it isn’t."
Do you think we can ever possess our Souls?
Excellent post Max!
Excellence Cheers.
Hello LSus!
ReplyDelete"While I agree with the creative endowment of the Caravaggio art it still does position the article in a certain dispensation of concepts such as God inspiring the writing of the New Testament and entire Bible for that matter…God being the “Guarantor” of the Authenticity and Authority." - LOL *nodding*...LS, this is a mere philosophical text. It is not my intention (nor my mission) to bring a New Messianic Message (if my name were Christina [from Christos, from Mashiach = anointed one] perhaps, and even so....Hmmm...but since it is not, darling...it is sheer intellectual gibberish). I am just exchanging thoughts here.
"I respect and appreciate that response, very helpful and explanatory." - *bowing*....
"LOL I’m going to have to pay more attention to your other conversations! LOL (Bad Livingsword bad! *slap on wrist*) LOL Are you invoking God inspiration here? (as in the sense of the Bible) You know there is a big Christian radio program that uses BAM (Bible Answer Man) so better watch out for copywrite! LOL…" - LOL *nodding*! God is in everything I do, think...so, I guess I am invoking His inspiration.
LOL LOL LS, "BAM" is an onomatopoeia...I could've used "Bada Bing" but I didn't find it suitable for the theme at hand LOL...*nodding* besides, it wouldn't express the impact the inspiration had on my mind.
"Ok it seems here that you claim Divine inspiration, fair enough, would you like to give me information that backs up your claim? Excellent thanks for naming Aleister Crowley I am aware of him (though not indepth) I will read up on him as he is in Wikipedia :)" - yes, I guess it does seem. I am afraid I must disappoint you on this one: I do not have any information to back the fact that God inspires me - I am ever so sorry.
LOL LOL Wikipedia won't provide the information you are looking for, I'm afraid.
"Wow your being very forthright here…." - *bowing*....
"Wow you receive this from the giant electronics chain store The Source?!!! Just a little brevity on a deep topic… :)" - LOL LOL...*nodding*!
"LOL I thought you would think so but your excellent answers have short circuited it. You passed along two essential pieces of information that allow me to carry on with a deeper look at the rest of the article, thanks! I will compare your thoughts to the Blade (Bible) to see if there is some common ground! So let me continue here….." - LOL LOL...you are welcome! LOL LOL LOL...oh boy....
"This is not in harmony with the Bible." - does the Bible contain All that IS? Perhaps now, you are in position to answer this question...since in the past you weren't.... :)
"The terms soul and spirit are interchangeable in the Bible in regards to humans. We do not have a warm up strategy session when we are conceived by our parents we come into being." - lol I love it when you make use of sarcasm (you do know what Sartre said about it, don't you?). How do you know that we do not have "a warm strategy session when we are conceived by our parents"? Does the Bible state it in those exact words? No...why? Because the Bible doesn't even address this kind of issue, since it focuses mainly on earthly behaviour and on the values to be followed. Even Jesus stated that humans would have a hard time comprehending celestial issues....
"Question in your belief system were is the spirit before the strategy meeting?" - and what is my belief system exactly, LS (since you seem to know so well)? Anyway, in my philosophy of life, the spirit before "the strategy meeting" is in what we call Heaven, where else?
"He will not rape us of our identity we have it forever (at the starting point of our personal creation) as a gift from the loving Creator." - "rape us"...that is a rather harsh expression to include in the same sentence as the word Creator...don't you think so? As for identity...are you referring to earthly identity or spiritual one?
"The soul is created at the exact instance our physical form initiates not before not after, we are a person at conception…You said “Each and one of us has its own purpose” you called a person an “it” this seems to indicated lack of individual personhood, identity." - we are spirits before becoming souls, and souls before having bodies. Indeed, I used "it" because we do not have a physical identity, nor gender, nor personhood (since we are souls).
"Reincarnation is not supported by the Bible (“just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment”- - Hebrews 9:27). It is true that we will consistently keep our identity into either Heaven or the Lake of Fire depending on a person’s eternal destination. There is no “second chance” on the other side." - I always say that there IS more than what is written in the Bible, but since the Blade is all you breathe let me try to breathe the same air as you...the Bible supports reincarnation but Christians (as the good sheeps they are) were not taught to interpret the subtleties of language, so here we go:
"Jesus answered and said to him, "Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God./ Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"/ Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God./ That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."" (John 3:3-7). What does this mean? I know that Christians were taught to believe that this means they must convert to Christ for he is the only way to God and that it means renovation of the spiritual life (thus the existence of the Born Again Christians); well, others who are not blinded by the Christian dogmae (including your Christian brothers the Spiritists) read this as a suggestion that reincarnation does exist, since the body cannot be born again, yet the Spirit can and will.
"It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." (Luke 1:17) Elijah (the Spirit, the soul that dressed the skin of Elijah) would reincarnate to prepare the people for the first part of the Plan.
"And His disciples asked Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?/ And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." (Matthew 17:10-12) Jesus himself is stating that reincarnation does exist, since John Baptist was Elijah's reincarnation (same spirit, different body).
"Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord" (Malachi 4:5) to come back one must be born as flesh again (same spirit different body), i.e. reincarnation.
"That which is has been already and that which will be has already been, for God seeks what has passed by." (Ecclesiastes 3:15) my favourite...this is an indication of the cycle of rebirth, and the repetition of events until one fulfills the mission for which was sent for.
So, I guess reincarnation is supported by the Bible, the question is: are Christians willing to open their eyes and read the Truth?
One thing is to say that one doesn't believe in reincarnation, which is quite acceptable (and part of the plan), another is to say that Texts (that are supposedly to have been inspired by God) do not support it just because it doesn't contain the exact words in it.
Even Jesus himself knew that it would be pointless to explain heavenly matters to humans for they wouldn't have the capacity to understand, to accept nor to believe "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" (John 3:12).
"Under your religious system does a person remember everything they have experienced form life here on Earth or does it all get deleted? What does that process look like? Do the various component s just get scrambled or do they get shared? Are we being judged after every life here on Earth and only get to stay on the other side if we accomplish “our mission”?" - under my philosphy of life, there are people who come with the memory of past lives, there are others who do not remember but if needed they can access that memory (either by themselves through many years of training in meditation; or through induced regression). What do you mean by "what does it look like?"? Yes, we are being judged after every life here on earth (to account for what we did, and to see how close we were from fulfilling our mission, if close at all). Naturally, we only get to stay "on the other side" once we fulfil our mission.
"Please name the Divine Council." - that was just a name I came up with to explain the Council of God, the Angels, angels, low spirits, high spirits etc.
"The Greek word used here for denies means: to not know in relationship, to refuse relationship, to deny, to contradict, not to accept, to reject, to refuse something offered, to deny a genuine claim" - well, I refuse relationship with Jesus' teachings, I deny them, I contradict them, I do not accept them, I reject them, I refuse his offered teachings, and I deny the claim that he is the only way to God. Yet, I accept that he was part of the Plan, as per written in the OT "As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; by His knowledge the righteous One, my Servant, will justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities." (Isaiah 53:11).
"I reject the concept of reincarnation because the bible denies reincarnation and teaches resurrection. I have seen no evidence that would lead me to believe in reincarnation. Or to receive the cruelty of such a system based upon religious “good deeds”." - you reject reincarnation because you refuse to read the Bible's support of it.
"For example God does not force us to sin…." - I am glad you bring this up again (because you didn't answer my query last time we spoke about this): God may not force us to sin, but He may manipulate events that will lead us to sin. Now, He knows everything in advance "(...)for I know their intent which they are developing today, before I have brought them into the land which I swore." (Deuteronomy 31:21)...so when He tests us (manipulating, thus, certain situations) He knows for sure that we will sin; yet, He must know that if He hadn't manipulated events we might had not sinned...but if He proceeds with His intent and we do end up by sinning, Who is responsible? Is He not?
"A very interesting conversation Maximus! Thanks for this opportunity!!!" - :D the thought is reciprocal, LS! I thank you, my friend *bowing*!
Cheers
Hey Bob :D!
ReplyDelete"Holy crap, I started reading some of the comments and thought, I think I'll pass on this one,lol, a little too deep, then I thought, maybe that's part of the problem." - LOL holy crap indeed LOL! No, never pass anything...whatever you have to say is equally valued!
"First of all I look at this whole Question from the viewpoint as a born again Christian, whew eliminates the reincarnation aspect." - fair enough :D!
"Is our soul our own possession? Well it all depends on your definition of possession, I possess it, so it's mine, uber simplistic, hey that's how I get through life." - So, as a born again Christian you don't feel that your soul belongs to God?
"Now, do I have ultimate control over it? not at all, how can I have ultimate control over something I don't understand?" - well said.
"I woke up one day and became aware, what's with that? There has to be something out there that knows all the answers because let me tell you we as humankind do not, I don't even think the LHC at CERN is going to answer the basic question, how did it all start?lol." - LOL LOL that was a good one, mate LOL! *nodding*...I agree with you the LHC won't answer the basic question...
"To sum it all up, no we don't possess our souls because we do not have the ultimate control over it, I know this probably isn't making any sense to you, it barely does to me,lol." - it makes utter sense to me, oh great Lord of the Astropics *bowing*! That is the whole spirit of this article: we do not control it, we do not possess it!
Bob, thank you so much for this fantastic, absolutely fantastic comment :D!
Cheers
Salut Zhu! :D
ReplyDelete"According to my own weird philosophy, I own my soul, but a lot of people helped me build it. Ancestor probably, people close to me, experiences, good and bad... we are the summary of our experiences and feeling." - interesting that you mention your ancestors...in African cultures (and Chinese too) it is also believed that the ancestors play a big role in a person's life. We are indeed the summary of our experiences and feelings, and under this theory we could say that we own our soul, but since we do not control the memory of those experiences...we do not possess it.
"Interesting question Max... and Mel!" - on Mel's behalf, and mine, I thank you :D!
Zhu, thanks for your most valued input, it was a real pleasure :D!
Cheers
LS;
ReplyDeleteBob left the building, but I receive the award on his behalf *bowing*! He didn't leave a speech, but he did ask me to tell you "thank you, I am truly honoured!"!
Cheers
Hi Lady A :D!
ReplyDelete"How lovely, I got a mention. Thanks." - you are welcome, darling :D! I just wanted you to know that I am listening to everything you say...
"This post falls on my ears like a beautiful sonnet. Whether we construe it as possession or suggestion, I think that perhaps we should examine our role as Soul. Why are we here? I think the main reason is to love, simply put, but other agendas (some recessed in our karmic memory) are intermingled with our goal of love." - beautiful! Yes, I think we can say that we are here due to love...because it is an act of love to accept to leave Home, come here, suffer (from the thrust in the birth-canal until we disincarnate), put up with some pain-in-the-neck humans, the hassles...man, it must be out of love for God indeed. And plus, we also come to love our family, significant other, friends and pets...yes, love is a good reason to be here.
"How do we really know that we don't possess our Souls? Is there any reason why we can't possess it? Any reason why the creator did not gift our Soul to us out of love? We exist because God loves us." - we know that we don't possess our Souls because God does. Yes, we don't control it. We exist because God loves us, but loving us doesn't mean granting us utter control and power.
A parent loves his child, but does he grant the kid the control and power? No.
"I understand your cogent argument. If we can possess our Souls through affection and connection then why can't we possess it through special permission from God, if you will. For example, what if we were on the Divine Council, then would be possess our Souls? Sort of like being on the Supreme Court. We are among the chosen and we wield (spiritual) power as guided by the Divine." - Because only He is Omnipotent, we aren't; whatever we do (as you so well put it) we need His permission; whereas whatever He does needs no one's permission. Why would God grant special permission to souls to possess themselves? What would be the purpose of that?
No, even if it were bestowed upon us the honour of being in the Divine Council, we wouldn't still possess our Souls, since we do not hold utter control over it; even though we "decide" the fate of others, the ultimate decision is God's.
"Agreed. Great passage." - thank you *bowing*!
"Do you think we can ever possess our Souls?" - no, darling...I don't. Only the Lord possesses everything. However, we eventually have the right to stay Home; ending, thus the rebirth cycle (thank God).
"Excellent post Max!" - thank you so much, darling :D!
And "epharisto" for an absolutely amazing comment, girl! You stimulated my intellect, merci *bowing*!
Brilliance Cheers.
Max,
ReplyDelete"...(from the thrust in the birth-canal until we disincarnate), put up with some pain-in-the-neck humans, the hassles...man,"
LOL. So descriptive!
"...we know that we don't possess our Souls because God does. Yes, we don't control it. We exist because God loves us, but loving us doesn't mean granting us utter control and power."
So would you say that we are agents for God? (without the 10% fee)
"Because only He is Omnipotent, we aren't; whatever we do (as you so well put it) we need His permission; whereas whatever He does needs no one's permission."
Agreed.
"Why would God grant special permission to souls to possess themselves? What would be the purpose of that?"
Even God has his favorites. (Hint, hint ;D)
Hmmm? I have always thought of myself as prepossessing. I am confident that you are as well. :D
"Only the Lord possesses everything."
And sometimes it leads to repossession. LOL. (laughing at own silly reference.)
"However, we eventually have the right to stay Home; ending, thus the rebirth cycle (thank God)."
Here. Here. We each have our roles here, only to retire to the big director in the sky.
Btw, there is one way that I could break your argument - by tickling. (stretching my fingers across the computer screen.) Now repeat after me. "Lady A, you are right. I don't know what I was thinking. You are always right."
There now, don't you feel better? I thought so.
Thanks for your utter brilliance! My brain is taking a breather.
Tickling Cheers.
Alexys,
ReplyDelete"LOL. So descriptive!" - LOL well...LOL!
"So would you say that we are agents for God? (without the 10% fee)" - LOL we are agents of God, without the 10% fee lol...*nodding*.
"Agreed." - *bowing*...
"Even God has his favorites. (Hint, hint ;D)" - ROFL....well, perhaps you are right...*thinking about the hint*...being Lady A one of them?
"Hmmm? I have always thought of myself as prepossessing. I am confident that you are as well. :D" - LOL indeed, we are both prepossessing lol *nodding*...oh boy, is our self-esteem high or what? LOL...
"And sometimes it leads to repossession. LOL. (laughing at own silly reference.)" - LOL LOL LOL it was a funny one LOL LOL....
"Here. Here. We each have our roles here, only to retire to the big director in the sky." - Amen to that!
"Btw, there is one way that I could break your argument - by tickling. (stretching my fingers across the computer screen.) Now repeat after me. "Lady A, you are right. I don't know what I was thinking. You are always right."" - ROFL...oh no, keep those fingers away from me LOL...*Max running around the room* no....no...ok, ok..."Lady A, you are right. I don't know what I was thinking. You are always right" LOL...
"There now, don't you feel better? I thought so." - LOL I do...LOL *nodding*....
"Thanks for your utter brilliance! My brain is taking a breather." - I thank you for your utter generosity *bowing*! LOL It was not my intention to fatigue your brain...should I punish myself? LOL
Yielded to Tickling Cheers.
When I read this post, I thought of two poems: one by a famous author, the other by a less famous author. The second one pretty much sums up my view on this subject.
ReplyDeleteInvictus by William Ernest Henley
OUT of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
I believe this next one is called "Answer to Invictus" by Orson F. Whitney
Art thou in truth? Then what of him
Who bought thee with his blood?
Who plunged into devouring seas
And snatched thee from the flood?
Who bore for all our fallen race
What none but him could bear.—
The God who died that man might live,
And endless glory share?
Of what avail thy vaunted strength,
Apart from his vast might?
Pray that his Light may pierce the gloom,
That thou mayest see aright.
Men are as bubbles on the wave,
As leaves upon the tree.
Thou, captain of thy soul, forsooth!
Who gave that place to thee?
Free will is thine—free agency,
To wield for right or wrong;
But thou must answer unto him
To whom all souls belong.
Bend to the dust that head “unbowed,”
Small part of Life’s great whole!
And see in him, and him alone,
The Captain of thy soul.
Hey Max,
ReplyDeleteIt's really awkward to read all the comments, so many quotes and responses. Hard on my old eyes.
Anyway, with all due respect, that was utter nonsense. You are making it all up from whole cloth, as you admit when you say that "it is all a product of my mind."
That is the truth of it - invention. The marvelous human brain has evolved to be a superb pattern seeking tool, but unfortunately can sometimes impose patterns where there are none.
All your delightful fancy of divine councils and souls with memory of past lives is just that - fantasy. Of course primitive man's first attempts at explaining his universe was full of gods and demons as he strove to put a meaning into things he did not understand - this is why the first gods were of the elements, fertility and fire. The lightning became the scolding of an angry god, earthquakes too, yet today we understand why these things happen. With reason and science we have answered many questions. Yes, there is so much more to discover, but that is no reason to revert to primitive man's answer for anything we don't yet fully understand. You say :
"what was before the beginning and what is after the end?" - God."
See what I mean? Anything you don't understand becomes 'god'. It's quite childish.
Now, as to this business of a 'soul'. Do you accept the idea of evidence and reason as being our best tools for developing knowledge of truth? Probably not. Even so, all evidence from neuroscience points to the mind being a product of the brain. The more we learn about the brain, the more we understand how consciousness is an effect of it. Duality is dead. There is no soul that lives on, that is the wishful thinking of an egotistical, scared human. We are bright sparks in the darkness ; inventing some supernatural plan is just your way of dealing with 'not knowing'. It makes no sense pretending to know what you cannot know.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but your post really does sound quite ridiculous. Apologies for my rudeness, but mentioning Aleister Crowley doesn't do you any favours either - the guy is an absurd ranter.
Watch the lower video here - it's only 50 seconds!
http://mantecanaut.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/feynman-the-inconceivable-nature-of-nature/
Hola Max, tanto tiempo! he estado estudiando para muchos exámenes no tuve tiempo ni para bañarme, así que empezaré, luego de un mes creo, que no hablamos, por puntos.
ReplyDelete1. Gracias por la traducción de la sonrisa, muchísimas muchísimas muchuísimas gracias. como ya te he dicho siempre, amo el portugués.
2. tengo muchas traducciones de tus cuentos; los estoy publicando de a poco. ya he subido el primero en arteymundo.
3. Hace alrededor de tres años que publico una revista, se llama Revista Hispanoemaricana Arte y Mundo, y quisiera invitarte, para mi sería un honor, he reeditado la revista y estoy publicando la versión del 2º semestre de 2008, y para mi sería importante si tu me permites ir publicando cuentos y ensayos tuyos en la revista: la visita mucha gente de Latinoamerica y España http://rharteymundo.wordpress.com/
4. por último jajaja, sisi, aquí ha comenzado la primavera!!!! aunque de cualquie rmanera hace mucho frío. viene el viento de la costa del atlántico. bueno, que mis palabras lo crucen y no se las lleve el viento jajaj. adios, bue fin de semana, besos!!
Hey D! :D
ReplyDeleteFantastic poems!! Both of them! - thank you so much for having shared them with us!
And I do understand why the second is the one supporting your personal views! Of course, The Captain of our Soul is our Creator...with that I agree in full.
D, darling, thank you once again for your input *bowing*!
Cheers
Hey Manty!
ReplyDelete"It's really awkward to read all the comments, so many quotes and responses. Hard on my old eyes" - LOL well, this is the place to voice one's opinion.
"Anyway, with all due respect, that was utter nonsense. You are making it all up from whole cloth, as you admit when you say that "it is all a product of my mind."" - yes, indeed...it is an artful result of my intellect. But do you call it nonsense only because it doesn't make sense to you?
"All your delightful fancy of divine councils and souls with memory of past lives is just that - fantasy." - I can respect your view, or should I say...lack of it. Either way, you are entitled to your personal opinion on these matters, darling.
"With reason and science we have answered many questions." - have we? What is the source of Reason, then? Before we were born, where were we, what were we?
"See what I mean? Anything you don't understand becomes 'god'. It's quite childish." - how well do you know the depths of my mind, dear? How can you be so sure of what my understanding is or is not? You can't, so "Anything you don't understand becomes 'god'" is a non valid sentence.
"It makes no sense pretending to know what you cannot know." - Again, how do you know what I can or cannot know?
"Sorry if that sounds harsh, but your post really does sound quite ridiculous. Apologies for my rudeness, but mentioning Aleister Crowley doesn't do you any favours either - the guy is an absurd ranter." - no, you do not sound harsh at all...you are simply stating an opinion (although in a very immature fashion).
You do not have to agree with what I write, you do not have to believe in the same things as I (and others) do, you do not have accept the same concepts as others do; however, you can do one thing: present your opinion, supported by intelligent arguments, and respect the arena (in case you haven't noticed, my readers stem from several belief systems, others do not have any; I don't always agree with them, nor they agree with me, but we all discuss issues in a rather respectful manner).
If your intent is to pester people, I am affraid you are wasting your precious time.
There are more interesting ways of being controversial.
Thank you so much for the link provided, I shall pay you a visit.
Cheers
Hola Fernando! :D
ReplyDeleteVerdad, tanto tiempo! No tuviste tiempo ni para bañarte LOL? Bromeas, claro lol...
"1. Gracias por la traducción de la sonrisa, muchísimas muchísimas muchuísimas gracias. como ya te he dicho siempre, amo el portugués." - de nada, guapo! Ha sido un placer enorme hacerla: es un poema muy precioso!
"2. tengo muchas traducciones de tus cuentos; los estoy publicando de a poco. ya he subido el primero en arteymundo." - ah, sí...he ya leido "Cual color perdiste?" está mejor que mi cuento original, te le digo!
"3. Hace alrededor de tres años que publico una revista, se llama Revista Hispanoemaricana Arte y Mundo, y quisiera invitarte, para mi sería un honor, he reeditado la revista y estoy publicando la versión del 2º semestre de 2008, y para mi sería importante si tu me permites ir publicando cuentos y ensayos tuyos en la revista: la visita mucha gente de Latinoamerica y España http://rharteymundo.wordpress.com/" - verdad??? Mira, el honor es todo mio, Fernando!!! Pero, claro...claro que puedes publicar mis cuentos y ensayos...Ai, qué alegria :D! Y gracias por el link...lo visitaré también yo!! :D
"4. por último jajaja, sisi, aquí ha comenzado la primavera!!!! aunque de cualquie rmanera hace mucho frío. viene el viento de la costa del atlántico. bueno, que mis palabras lo crucen y no se las lleve el viento jajaj. adios, bue fin de semana, besos!! " - La primavera es una estación lindísima!! Ah, se te consola aquí también hace un poco de frío (aunque estemos en otoño)!
Lindo, muchas gracias...y buen fin de semana (la invitación me ha hecha feliz, muy feliz...gracias una vez más)!!
Besos
Maxie!
ReplyDeleteYou are quite correct in your appraisal of my last comment as immature. I apologise whole-heartedly ; it is with considerable shame that I admit I had drank more than my fair share of wine when I posted. So, there is a lesson for moderation :)
I honestly don't wish to pester or offend, and while I disagree with you completely, I am ashamed that I lack the urbanity and sophistication to present my argument in a civilised manner. In short - I'll try to behave :)
So, I must address this first:
"With reason and science we have answered many questions." - have we? What is the source of Reason, then? Before we were born, where were we, what were we?"
Have we answered questions using science and reason? Even you must admit that they have. From tectonic plate movement, heliocentrism, genetics, gravity, physics etc etc, the list is substantial. We have discovered truths about our physical reality by demanding evidence and good reasons for what we believe. You must admit that we can be easily fooled, by illusions of sight and sound, our brains can be easily 'tricked'. This can also happen with our thinking. The man in the mental hospital who thinks he is Napoleon - is not Napoleon. The fact that the human brain is fallible is why the tool of science is so useful...it takes our fallible brains out of the equation.
You ask where does 'reason' come from, and I've answered that - our evolved brains. If you understand evolution, you understand how the ability to determine causality is possibly the main factor that has enabled us to be so successful as a species. That and our ability to 'imagine'. To create a virtual, hypothetical model to base decisions on.
Before we were born, what were we? This is a question a child asks of its parents. What was a frog before it was a frog? A tadpole.:) before that...molecules, atoms, subatomic particles. There was no 'we' or even 'you'. It is a difficult concept to entertain...that you are the result of billions of years of evolution and have developed so much as to become aware of yourself. In a way it's beautiful...the universe observing, and mystified by itself.
So, it's only natural that you seek to explain the as yet unexplainable, with all the resources your imagination offers you. But think on it. You profess to have supernatural knowledge :
"how do you know what I can or cannot know?"
I know that you may believe, but I am sure that you do not "know". There is a phrase "intellectual honesty"...which means, however strong a 'feeling' you have, however much you think something to be true, we know our minds are fallible and cannot always be trusted to give us a reliable version of reality. If you are honest with yourself, you will say that you do not "know"...these things that you say you know. Am I right? Be honest.
I send you my love. Sorry again about my abrasive manner...it is a failing I am trying to improve.
xxx
Max:
ReplyDeleteI can't go this deep. It's way over my head. As I read through your post I feel like a spaceship that has lost its way in the vastness of space. I only have two possible outcomes: 1. I drift for an eternity. 2 I crash and burn on some distant sun. Either way, I lose. So here's the simplest answer I can give to your question. My belongs to God. But I can't speak for anybody else. Probably not the most intelligent answer, but like I said, I'm in way over my philosophical head.
Happy trails.
Hey Max,
ReplyDeleteSorry to jump in here, but I just had to respond to swubird. For someone who believes that they are way over their head, swubird has cut through all of the crap to give, probably, the most succinct and direct answer there is.
WELL DONE!!
Hello Max,
ReplyDeleteI have seen your name many times at Mel's.
I have to agree with swubird when he says this is way too philosophical for me.
At least it is while I am on medication. Medication that has put me into a state of delirium.
However, I can say that I know what I know from my own being and my own self also.
Yes I was taught and reared in a certain faith. However, with maturity I have learned to listen to God's voice within my own being.
I don't formally call it meditation. I merely have quiet time where I lie down and simply say "Okay God here I am."
Many times I fall asleep while listening and when I wake I have answers to things I didn't even know I was asking.
As for our souls I do believe that God did breathe the first breath. He is Alpha and Omega. He is infinity, energy, mystery, and beauty.
Therefore, since he breathed the first breath and shared it with us, then we are merely caretakers of our soul.
The spiritual energy of our soul has it's source rooted in God.
As I stated I am on some very strong medicine for pneumonia. So if my comment seems unorganized I do apologize.
I too am merely a wanderer within this strange planet. This is not my home. I do not know where my home is but I do know that my soul shall leave this physical being and return to it's original source which is God!
Manty, hello!
ReplyDelete"You are quite correct in your appraisal of my last comment as immature. I apologise whole-heartedly ; it is with considerable shame that I admit I had drank more than my fair share of wine when I posted. So, there is a lesson for moderation :)" - apologies accepted *bowing*! But you do know what they say: "In vino veritas"! Nevertheless, you are quite excused :).
"I honestly don't wish to pester or offend, and while I disagree with you completely, I am ashamed that I lack the urbanity and sophistication to present my argument in a civilised manner. In short - I'll try to behave :)" - It's valid to disagree with me (if everybody would agree with me, the world would be boring to death); the same way I disagree with you...but still, we can have decent conversations within the field of respect and good manners.
Good :)! Now, let's see what you have to offer us...
"You must admit that we can be easily fooled, by illusions of sight and sound, our brains can be easily 'tricked'." - I agree.
"This can also happen with our thinking. The man in the mental hospital who thinks he is Napoleon - is not Napoleon. The fact that the human brain is fallible is why the tool of science is so useful...it takes our fallible brains out of the equation." - LOL this was a great example! And it is true that our thinking is also subject to influences (good or bad), yes.
I am not against science, au contraire; but I do not think that it offers all the answers, that is all.
"You ask where does 'reason' come from, and I've answered that - our evolved brains." - evolved brains...I understand where you are coming from...
"If you understand evolution, you understand how the ability to determine causality is possibly the main factor that has enabled us to be so successful as a species. That and our ability to 'imagine'. To create a virtual, hypothetical model to base decisions on." - yes, I studied evolutionism in school, and I kept asking the same question all the time: what is the source of things? What was the source of the very first cell? Who created it?
"Before we were born, what were we? This is a question a child asks of its parents. What was a frog before it was a frog? A tadpole.:) before that...molecules, atoms, subatomic particles." - LOL indeed, but that is what we are: children in the eyes of God :).
I can go with your answer...since the soul is energy, light; thus, it is made of particles (and all that you said)...yes, you are not wrong.
"But think on it. You profess to have supernatural knowledge" - I will, Manty. Supernatural knowledge, me? I wish...
"If you are honest with yourself, you will say that you do not "know"...these things that you say you know. Am I right? Be honest." - well, I always say that the only thing that I know is that I know nothing, because no matter what I learn, how much knowledge I acquire, I know it doesn't reflect Knowledge. But still I know what I know, the same way you know what you know.
"I send you my love. Sorry again about my abrasive manner...it is a failing I am trying to improve." - thank you, Manty :)! It's ok...I am sure you will get there!
Manty, dear, thank you for this civil exchange of thoughts. I believe, I am now in position to understand you better...*bowing*!
Cheers
Hey Swu! :D
ReplyDelete"I can't go this deep. It's way over my head." - perhaps you underestimate yourself, buddy! Let's see what your mind developed...
"I only have two possible outcomes: 1. I drift for an eternity. 2 I crash and burn on some distant sun. Either way, I lose. So here's the simplest answer I can give to your question. My belongs to God. But I can't speak for anybody else. Probably not the most intelligent answer, but like I said, I'm in way over my philosophical head." - *clap clap clap* you see...you definitely underestimated yourself...this was a great answer to my question! It was simple and straight to the point *bowing*! Let me make of your words, my words: "My soul belongs to God"! :D
Swu, excellent comment...for which I thank you ever so much :D!
Cheers
Hey Mel,
ReplyDelete"Sorry to jump in here, but I just had to respond to swubird. For someone who believes that they are way over their head, swubird has cut through all of the crap to give, probably, the most succinct and direct answer there is." - I utterly agree with you!!
As I said, Swu was underestimating himself. He offered a great answer!
"WELL DONE!!" - Hear! Hear!
Cheers
Hello Shinade :D!
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the MAX!!
"I have seen your name many times at Mel's." - yes, and I have seen yours as well :)!
"I have to agree with swubird when he says this is way too philosophical for me." - ooh, Swu offered the most philosophical answer one could get! And I am sure you will too! So, let's see what you have to bestowe upon us...
"At least it is while I am on medication. Medication that has put me into a state of delirium." - I am sorry to hear that...I hope it is nothing too serious...*tender face*!
"However, I can say that I know what I know from my own being and my own self also." - Amen to that.
"Yes I was taught and reared in a certain faith. However, with maturity I have learned to listen to God's voice within my own being." - that is beautiful!
"Many times I fall asleep while listening and when I wake I have answers to things I didn't even know I was asking." - you have heard the calling, that is wonderful! I must say that what you experienced is quite natural, darling...
"As for our souls I do believe that God did breathe the first breath. He is Alpha and Omega. He is infinity, energy, mystery, and beauty." - Amen!
"Therefore, since he breathed the first breath and shared it with us, then we are merely caretakers of our soul." - I agree.
"The spiritual energy of our soul has it's source rooted in God." - again, I agree.
"As I stated I am on some very strong medicine for pneumonia. So if my comment seems unorganized I do apologize." - are you kidding me? Your comment is perfect! I am sorry to hear about your condition...
"I too am merely a wanderer within this strange planet. This is not my home. I do not know where my home is but I do know that my soul shall leave this physical being and return to it's original source which is God!" - beautiful!
Shinade, thank you so much for this gorgeous comment...you have made my day! :D
And I wish you well, I do hope you get better *tender face*!
Cheers
Thank you so much Max for dropping over and leaving such a kind and thoughtful comment.
ReplyDeleteI shall indeed make this a regular visit.
God Bless my new friend.:D
hi max! i had a great one too, thanks. and i'm glad to hear you did too.
ReplyDeletetake care dear.
Hey Shinade!
ReplyDeleteDon't mention it, darling :)!
That is wonderful! You are welcome here, extremely welcome :D!
Thank you, and God bless you, darling!
Cheers
Hey Liza,
ReplyDeleteMusic to my ears :D!
Have a great week ahead!
Cheers