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Democracy = a form of government in which power is held by the people, under a free electoral system.
From the Greek δημοκρατία (demokratia); δήμος (demos)= people and κράτος (kratos) = rule, strength.
It is said that there are many definitions of democracy (I suppose in a diplomatic attempt to justify the twists and turns in the democracy of some cultures) however there are two principles that are common to any definition:
- All members of society have equal access to power.
- All members of society enjoy universally recognised freedoms and liberties.
In theory, this looks good, proper, decent...however how often is this really implemented & exercised?
The people have the right to have equal access to power. Well, this can only occur when the people have equal access to equal education of quality, information, opportunities and health care.
If a government fails in providing its people (the power house of any country, and literally its main shareholder) with the basics so that it can better decide on how its nation should be ran, administrated, managed, governed, and protected; and so that it can aspire to one day serve its fellow citizens...then that government ignores the true meaning of demokratia. When a government chooses to forget that its job is to serve, to defend the interests of its nation, of its land; its main shareholder has not only the right but also the obligation to bring down this selfish, despicable, shameful, corrupt and democratic-agnostic pseudo-government.
The people have the right to enjoy universal freedoms & liberties. Yes, it does but it doesn’t always. Sadly we look around only to realise that freedom & liberty are often two neglected concepts:
Case I: the government obliterates the notion that exists to serve and protect, thus beginning to exploit, abuse & attack the people; betray its trust; and, in some cases, annihilate the highest form of freedom through censorship and embellished dictatorship.
Case II: the people itself obliterates the fact that with freedom and liberty come responsibility, sacrifice, duty to the nation, service, commitment, common good and vigilance.
True freedom and liberty require knowledge. An individual, a people, that doesn’t have it, is never free; living thus subjugated to manipulation and deceit.
It is the duty of the knowledgeable to ensure that its fellow citizens have real access to the freedom and liberty.
Democracy is the most beautiful political form of governance I have ever had the pleasure to read about. Its spirit is equalitarian yet respecting individuality and progress.
However it is not fully implemented...not yet. It is a word we like to blow in the wind, spit on the ground and dream about; for as long as there is one member of our society who doesn’t have access to education, information, health care, universally recognised freedoms and liberties (the very core of demokratia), then democracy has failed; proving therefore that we live in a pseudo-democracy.
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Hello Max…..
ReplyDeleteIt seems that we have a fair amount in common with this topic….
However there are I believe several interesting areas for me to explore here…
When you speak of freedom and liberty we must consider that people under such a system are free to choose the degree to which they want to be educated and take advantage of opportunities. Some may freely choose to not become fully engaged within the system.
Although all people are equal under the eyes of God that does not mean that everybody is equal in abilities such as intelligence or in matters of health…How educated is educated enough? How health is healthy enough?
Many people are simply not interested in politics so to expect that even with a “good” education and opportunities aplenty that they may be willing and active participants in growing a healthy democracy is a another question….are they not also free to not be actively involved?
Where do rights and responsibilities begin and end? Where does the community and individual intersect at a healthy crossroads? This is I would suggest not the same for all people….
If the people do not guard their hard purchased freedoms then government has a tendency to lean into depleting such freedoms. Typically people that are interested in being part of government/politics want to grow government as it is their area of interest and they often believe that it is the answer to most problems. Therefore government control and power is expanded over the individual…
How free is the individual? Are they free to decide the degree to which they are inclined towards self sacrifice for their country (besides taxes)? Are they not free to not exercise their liberty and stay home on Election Day?
Now as you know I see a difference in democracy and anarchy of freedoms…
Communisms does not work because it misdiagnoses human nature. It presupposes that people will want to be good and are actually truly capable of being good…perfectly good. This is in error. Capitalism recognizes our propensity towards selfishness and greed. Democracy allows for the freedom of individuality but harnesses such freedoms to the rule of law sustained by a certain measure of order within community along with the capacity to exact justice upon law breakers. The more we increase law and order the more we diminish freedom and liberty of the individual however it could likewise be argued that the same law and order enables individual freedoms. Inevitably democracy like communism fail to perfectly build perfect societies made up of imperfect people. This being said in our current state democracy is our most positively enabling system even though we in actuality live in pseudo-democracy….
A Fallen universe broken/shattered/enslaved by a Fallen human nature is incapable of pure democracy….In short I think you are seeing the cup half empty as pseudo-democracy is a raging success even with its flaws…and part of what makes it successful is the continual striving towards pure democracy….
I embrace democracy as a citizen of the world but as a citizen of Heaven I devoutly with no reservation follow my Monarch....He is the perfect Government…
Excellent article my dear….
I truly believe in democratie but I also think we try to push our model to much. It works for some countries, but would it work for everybody?
ReplyDeleteI believe citizens can and must have their human rights protected. But is a US-style (or Greek style) democratie possible in Afghanistan, for ex.?
New models should be invented...
Hi Max!
ReplyDeleteAnother great and open to question post of you! Congrats...
Your post reminded me the Arrows Impossibilty Theorem.
As related with this theorem ,there should be 4 circumstances to compose the democratic system.
There is no consistent method by which a democratic society can make a choice (when voting) that is always fair when that choice must be made from among 3 or more alternatives.
-Whatever the election choice of people, the system must reach to the conclusion.
-There must be an order of preference among people's choices.
-There must be definitions which can define the choices of people.
-It musn't be a dictatorial regime.
But as it has been proven before, those 4 circumstances have never come together.
Well written and said Max and I think true democracy empowering people.
ReplyDeleteBtw: (have to be short due to my back problem, but I do love to visit and read your excellent posts!)
Democracy = a form of government in which power is held by the people, under a free electoral system.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Greek δημοκρατία (demokratia); δήμος (demos)= people and κράτος (kratos) = rule, strength.
its a good question??Do you live the democracy????
At the Brazil its very difficult, because the peoples look for one...never alway.....
s
hey max! thank you so much for the ec credits :)
ReplyDeletehope you're having a great day. :)
Hello Max!
ReplyDeleteBeautiful, powerful, mind challenging: that's your post!
Democracy is like happiness: it is out there at the reach of any person and yet countries aren't pursuing it.
Is democracy complex? Certainly.
Is it attainable? Absolutely.
We, the people, should be pushing for the basics: family, education, health care, jobs, proper housing and then rest (i.e. technology, creativity, imagination) will flow like a river's fresh water.
Congratulations!
Howdy Max,
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot that I like, but a few things that you could perhaps help me with.
There is a point where liberty of person A conflicts with liberty of person B. In fact, this is extremely common to the point that a Democracy must always be weighing conflicting liberties. How does this fit into Democracy, particularly when there are minorities with values that conflict with a majority?
The other is with regard to education. Who is it that determines what information should be presented to the citizens and what should be filtered out?
Hello LS :D!
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to see you here...you were missed.
"It seems that we have a fair amount in common with this topic…."
True, true...except the fact that you cleverly compared the political democracy with the ecclesiastical organisational operations.
"However there are I believe several interesting areas for me to explore here…"
Please do...
"When you speak of freedom and liberty we must consider that people under such a system are free to choose the degree to which they want to be educated and take advantage of opportunities. Some may freely choose to not become fully engaged within the system."
Indeed, they are free to decide if they don't want an education and to benefit from the opportunities offered; however if they don't get an education, and the proper information how can they decide properly on who is going to run the nation?
If they don't benefit from the basic power of any society, which is education & health, they help their nation to pursue a pseudo-democracy when it could pursue a pure democracy (as you called it in your post).
Liberty and freedom demand responsibility, duty, commitment...and seeking (and/or fighting) for education and information is a duty to one's nation (after all, progress also depends on it).
"Although all people are equal under the eyes of God that does not mean that everybody is equal in abilities such as intelligence or in matters of health…How educated is educated enough? How health is healthy enough?"
I beg to differ. We are all equally intelligent, all...what differs is the amount of intellectuality we have (some have some, others a lot, and others none), but that doesn't prevent one from having the basic rights, does it? In the matters of health, we may not be born healthy but we have the right to equal care.
Enough education: 12 years of basic education + college or professional education (polytechnic institutes for example). But if a person decides to go further than that, he or she is free to do so...this is the beauty of a true democracy.
Enough health: is there such a thing?
"Many people are simply not interested in politics so to expect that even with a “good” education and opportunities aplenty that they may be willing and active participants in growing a healthy democracy is a another question….are they not also free to not be actively involved?"
People are not interested in public politics because the politicians do not engage them (and they know when they are being deceived by politicians, when the latter are not interested in serving, but pretend to be doing so in order to serve their own agenda). We have recently seen what happens when a politician is good and engages people: they become involved (from the youngest to the oldest).
It is a fallacy to say that people are simply not interested in politics: politics is everywhere. We do politics in our home, in our jobs, in our relationships...so it is not true, at all, that they are not interested in politics.
"Where do rights and responsibilities begin and end? Where does the community and individual intersect at a healthy crossroads? This is I would suggest not the same for all people…"
Rights and responsibilities walk hand in hand - where one begins the other begins as well, and where one ends the other ends too. This is not like where my freedom starts yours ends (which I am not sure it is so).
The Community and Individual concepts intersect when the individual learns that one doesn't live without the other; and that it needs to put aside its egotism and realise that we are here (on earth) to work for the community (by providing the evolutionary tools for the following generation).
"If the people do not guard their hard purchased freedoms then government has a tendency to lean into depleting such freedoms."
If the people let it, yes. Look at Iceland: the government didn't do its job properly and the people brought it down. This is democracy; this is the people guarding their freedoms.
"Typically people that are interested in being part of government/politics want to grow government as it is their area of interest and they often believe that it is the answer to most problems. Therefore government control and power is expanded over the individual…"
The government in order to administrate a nation has to have more power (invested in it by the people) than an individual, obviously; and it has to control it in ways that the order is maintained. But this doesn't give it the right to do as it pleases....it must be reminded that it is serving its power house at all times (to avoid abuse).
"How free is the individual? Are they free to decide the degree to which they are inclined towards self sacrifice for their country (besides taxes)? Are they not free to not exercise their liberty and stay home on Election Day?"
In a free society the individual ,who understands that with freedom comes responsibility, duty, commitment, the sense of duty, service, sacrifice and vigilance; is more free than he ever thought he'd be.
To stay at home on election day is lacking the sense of civic duty and responsibilty towards one's nation.
Freedom is not anarchy. Freedom brings order, anarchy brings chaos.
"Now as you know I see a difference in democracy and anarchy of freedoms…"
I know....so do I.
"Communisms does not work because it misdiagnoses human nature."
I agree.
"It presupposes that people will want to be good and are actually truly capable of being good…perfectly good. This is in error. Capitalism recognizes our propensity towards selfishness and greed. Democracy allows for the freedom of individuality but harnesses such freedoms to the rule of law sustained by a certain measure of order within community along with the capacity to exact justice upon law breakers."
There is not perfectly good on earth, so it is an absurd theory. Communism, as I told you before, is very nice on paper (extremely romantic) but it simply doesn't work (and it has been widely proven).
Capitalism is great (I am a capitalist, even though a socially responsible one); but let's face it: it's too lenient towards financial abuse. Capitalism needs to be re-designed.
Law and order are essential to keep us from chaos. Being free doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want (anarchy).
"Inevitably democracy like communism fail to perfectly build perfect societies made up of imperfect people. This being said in our current state democracy is our most positively enabling system even though we in actuality live in pseudo-democracy…"
Interesting. Would you say that we are better now than we were, say, 200 or even 100 years ago? I would say that we evolved, our society's evolved and it can (and will) continue to do. Therefore I trust that there will come the time when the society will live a more pure democracy.
"A Fallen universe broken/shattered/enslaved by a Fallen human nature is incapable of pure democracy…."
As I said, I disagree.
"In short I think you are seeing the cup half empty as pseudo-democracy is a raging success even with its flaws…and part of what makes it successful is the continual striving towards pure democracy…."
Unlike you, I don't think of my environment only...I like to look beyond the borders of my family, of my building, of my neighbourhood, of my city, of my nation, of my continent. Here's one interesting fact: Pseudo-democracy is not a raging success; not when there are children who do not have equal access to education, health care, proper housing, protection from abuse etc; not when power of governance is only for a few or always for the same people/families; not when even a people's thoughts are being censored; not when dictatorship, oligarchy, authoritarianism and totalitarianism are being camouflaged as democracy...this does not reflect success, this reflects failure.
And when we try to justify the lack of provision for the foundations of a healthy democratic society with "a fallen human nature" that renders us all incapable of acknowledging that we have failed as a whole, and are not willing to take responsibility for our unaccountability, then we have definitely failed, democracy has failed. However, it can succeed, it will succeed one day; for I believe the people will evolve (as already have so many times throughout history).
"I embrace democracy as a citizen of the world but as a citizen of Heaven I devoutly with no reservation follow my Monarch....He is the perfect Government…"
So do I. Indeed, but you do not live in His Kingdom yet (and hopefully you won't for many years to come).
"Excellent article my dear…."
Thank you, darling...you are too kind *bowing*!
LS, thank you so much for this magnificent discussion...like I said, in the beginning, you were missed :D!
Cheers
Salut Zhu :D!
ReplyDelete"I truly believe in democratie but I also think we try to push our model to much. It works for some countries, but would it work for everybody?"
There should be recognised only one model of democracy; one where:
1- all members of society have equal access to a free electoral system.
2- all members of society have equal access to power.
3- all members of society have equal access to freedoms and liberties.
If the model isn't comprised of these then it is not a democracy at all.
When the democratic principles say "all members" it means men, women, old, young, poor and rich...when all members are not included in the way a country is governed, when all members cannot aspire to serve and governe their nation...then it is not a democracy. It is as simple as that.
"I believe citizens can and must have their human rights protected. But is a US-style (or Greek style) democratie possible in Afghanistan, for ex.?"
Well, I don't think there is a US-style or a Portuguese-Style demokratia...I think there is demokratia. And if Afghanistan really wants to grant all members of its society the basic rights that democracy confers, then yes it is possible. But if it doesn't want, then it has the right not to, however let's not call it democracy.
"New models should be invented..."
There are several political regimes that countries that do not wish to be truly democratic can adopt...
Zhu, merci infiniment pour ton commentaire...c'etait vraiement chouette :D!
Cheers
Hi Burcu :D!
ReplyDelete"Another great and open to question post of you! Congrats..."
Thank you, darling *bowing*!
"There is no consistent method by which a democratic society can make a choice (when voting) that is always fair when that choice must be made from among 3 or more alternatives."
And yet, the democratic power is exercised: a government is selected.
However the voting system, and its ability to reflect the preferences of individuals into the community, is not the question here. The question is: a nation to be labelled as being democratic, requires from the part of its government the implementation of two democratic principles, such as equal access to all members (and this means, men and women, young and old, poor or rich) of society to power and universally recognised freedoms and liberties. If a government fails to implement these principles then it is not a democracy, it is something else.
Burcu, thank you so much for your input (it was most valuable) :D!
Cheers
Hi Renny :D!
ReplyDelete"Well written and said Max and I think true democracy empowering people."
Thank you so much *bowing*! I agree.
"Btw: (have to be short due to my back problem, but I do love to visit and read your excellent posts!)"
Oh, you are still suffering from your back? I am so sorry to hear that, my friend :(.
Thank you for your generosity, Renny...it means a lot :D!
I wish you well, my friend! And thanks for having taken the time to drop by and comment :D!
Cheers
Hi Philip :D!
ReplyDelete"its a good question??Do you live the democracy????"
To tell you the truth, no. Portugal lives in a Pseudo-democracy, since it doesn't offer equal education of quality to everybody (which is unacceptable; but it is already being exposed and hopefully it will change soon); and it doesn't offer equal access to power either (we have always the same old politicians and members of the same of old political families - this must change, and thank God the people have already started to speak out against it) *nodding*.
"At the Brazil its very difficult, because the peoples look for one...never always....."
I see what you mean, Philip *nodding*....
Philip, thank you so much for having dropped by and for your input :D!
Cheers
Hello Circulus Ciceronis :D!
ReplyDelete"Beautiful, powerful, mind challenging: that's your post!"
Thank you so much *bowing*!
"Democracy is like happiness: it is out there at the reach of any person and yet countries aren't pursuing it."
This is beautiful! Yes, indeed...that is exactly it: democracy is not being pursued.
"Is democracy complex? Certainly. Is it attainable? Absolutely."
I absolutely agree with you. Although complex it is attainable.
"We, the people, should be pushing for the basics: family, education, health care, jobs, proper housing and then rest (i.e. technology, creativity, imagination) will flow like a river's fresh water."
Amen to that! This is exactly what I am talking about!
"Congratulations!"
Thanks, C.C :D!
And thank you for this amazing comment...you read my thoughts rather well *bowing*! I am loving having you around :D!
Cheers
Hey Liza,
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome, darling :D!
I am having a great day indeed, thanks! I hope you are having one as well :D!
Hugs, darling!
Howdy Looney :D!
ReplyDelete"There is a lot that I like, but a few things that you could perhaps help me with."
You are so kind, Looney *bowing*! Believe me, you help me more than I could ever help you...but I can always try, so shoot...
"There is a point where liberty of person A conflicts with liberty of person B. In fact, this is extremely common to the point that a Democracy must always be weighing conflicting liberties. How does this fit into Democracy, particularly when there are minorities with values that conflict with a majority?"
Very good question!!
Democracy is a form of government attainable through a free electoral system, right? If suffrage is involved this means that the choice of the majority will prevail (I am talking about a democracy and not a false one, like in so many countries where the choice of the majority doesn't prevail).
Like Burcu was saying in her comment, the Arrow's Impossibility theorem tells us that no voting system truly reflects the preferences of individuals into the community at the same time it meets a group of criteria (with at least 3 options) to choose from, yet it is interesting to see how a group of people (the majority) with different backgrounds, social status, set of values and sense of liberty come to choose the same candidate (electing him/her thus to run the country).
"The other is with regard to education. Who is it that determines what information should be presented to the citizens and what should be filtered out?"
The question is: should information be filtered out when it comes to education?
Filtering information is censoring the educational system (which goes against the principles of democracy).
This reminds me of Iran: its Art students do not have access to the major art paintings and sculptures of the world because the state believes that students cannot be corrupted by the nudity in the art (and so they censor the books by sanitising the images). These students' right to have access to a proper education (and even equal, for there are those who are allowed to have the unsanitised books) is being barred...but then again, they don't live in a democratic country...
Looney, as always you brought excellent points to the arena...thank you so much for your valuable contribution *bowing*!
Cheers
Incredible conversation here, and one of idealism. Utopian society where all have equalities assumes that the masses are goal oriented. I am surrounded by those who choose not to pursue anything that warrents time or effort. While one man works hard his entire life to feed and cloth his family, the other wastes away at the expence of the worker.
ReplyDeleteIn America, our value system seems to be lost. People want everything from goverment, yet do not want the taxation. In fact, the number of citizens that pay no tax at all has climbed at an alarming rate.
What happened to earning your own way? What happened to planning the future and being held accountable?
Any able bodied person can work there way through school, an get a job with premium health care. That simple.
I realize this agenda is a bit off topic, but one that hits home because socialism is destroying free market and world economies. Each effort to fix the deepening depression caused by gigantic government is "fixed" by making it larger. People love to vote for gifts that cost them nothing, yet in effect we are loosing everything. Democracy fails when socialism rewards ambivelance to achieve.
Hey Max, another winner.
ReplyDeleteI am not into politics at all, I just know I like living where I do, because of the freedoms I enjoy, call the government what you will, democracy in theory works, the problem as I see it and why I stay away from talking politics is that a system is only as good as the people in charge, people being corrupt corrupt the system. Funds are misused, debt built up, not enough money for everybody to get the best education, or health care.
Having said all this, I coming from a poor family had the freedom to bust my butt, work very hard got myself an education a good job, in short, I made the system, Democracy, work for me.
No system is perfect, this is the only one I've ever been in, could it be better, of course, but up and until humankind becomes uncorrupt don't expect things to be perfect, that is until a few hundred years from now when we become like in Star Trek and get a Federation of Planets, and everybody is happy and wears real ugly clothes,lol.
Max:
ReplyDeleteI believe you. About the we can achieve is a sort of pseudo-democracy. However, I would rather have that than the alternative.
When one thinks about democracy, you must also consider what from of economy you will have to go with it. For instance, socialism can get way out of control and cause the democracy to fail. If everybody has everything, it's difficult to fund the system. Capitalism, on the other hand, has the drawback that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Capitalism is like a giant carnivor. It will eat the weak. A delicate mix of regulations and control has to be in place to keep capitalism from eating itself.
Happy trails.
Hi Max,
ReplyDeleteYou make me want to finish my Greek lessons. It's funny, I can read a little Greek and speak a little, but I can understand more than I can read or speak. (I have to finish those lessons soon.) I have so much to do and my brain keeps sending me on detours.
When the Greeks first spoke of democracy, do you think it was easier back then or is everything relative to our time period now? I often wonder if they had a more difficult time back then exercising democracy than some countries today.
I am trying to add something more concrete, but I think you have covered it diligently. Do you think that in time, all nations will experience democracy?
I find a dichotomy with democracy - the more people realize that they live in a democratic society, (where they have many liberties) the more they are willing to fight for their rights (to keep them and get more.) Have you noticed that?
"Democracy is the most beautiful political form of governance I have ever had the pleasure to read about. Its spirit is equalitarian yet respecting individuality and progress. However it is not fully implemented...not yet."
True.
"It is a word we like to blow in the wind, spit on the ground and dream about; for as long as there is one member of our society who doesn’t have access to education, information, health care, universally recognised freedoms and liberties (the very core of demokratia), then democracy has failed; proving therefore that we live in a pseudo-democracy."
Bravo! Sheer applause. Take a bow.
Efharistó- (Thank you, pronounced eff-har-ee-STOH)
Demokratia Cheers.
HI MAX. I wanted to say that I close my blog, Arte y Mundo, but I continue with the magazine Revista Arte y Mundo. So, I published that old translation I did about a story you write. this is the link: rharteymundo.wordpress.com
ReplyDeletewell, have a nice week my friend!!!! (I´m on holidays)
Hi! I’m reminded of the words that President Abraham Lincoln once said, “That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
ReplyDeleteLooking around the world I know not all have this freedom that he spoke about.
We are blessed here with the right to vote, to speak our mind whether in word or in peaceful protest, and to question our chosen government if we see fit without fear of retribution.
It disappoints me when people here and elsewhere that have been given the right to vote choose to ignore this gift.
To be given a say in how our country will be run and who will represent us, is what many have fought for and died for and what others long for in other places.
For those countries under a rule that quashes human rights for their people, I condemn them, as do their own people I’m sure.
Take Care,
Peter
Hey Speedy :D!
ReplyDelete"Incredible conversation here, and one of idealism. Utopian society where all have equalities assumes that the masses are goal oriented. I am surrounded by those who choose not to pursue anything that warrents time or effort. While one man works hard his entire life to feed and cloth his family, the other wastes away at the expence of the worker."
Idealism is one of the many roots of politics, isn't it? I see where you are coming from...
"In America, our value system seems to be lost. People want everything from goverment, yet do not want the taxation. In fact, the number of citizens that pay no tax at all has climbed at an alarming rate. "
It's not only in America, unfortunately *nodding*.
"What happened to earning your own way? What happened to planning the future and being held accountable?"
Excellent questions!!
"I realize this agenda is a bit off topic, but one that hits home because socialism is destroying free market and world economies. Each effort to fix the deepening depression caused by gigantic government is "fixed" by making it larger. People love to vote for gifts that cost them nothing, yet in effect we are loosing everything."
No, it's ok...it is all part of democracy building...
I live in a socialist country, and let me tell you that America is far from being socialist.
"Democracy fails when socialism rewards ambivelance to achieve."
May I quote you?
Speedy, thank you so much for your incredible contribution to this article; loved it :D! It's good to see you here!
Cheers
Hey Bob :D!
ReplyDelete"another winner."
Thank you, Lord of the Astropics *bowing*!
"I am not into politics at all, I just know I like living where I do, because of the freedoms I enjoy, call the government what you will, democracy in theory works, the problem as I see it and why I stay away from talking politics is that a system is only as good as the people in charge, people being corrupt corrupt the system. Funds are misused, debt built up, not enough money for everybody to get the best education, or health care."
I totally hear you! And if I am not mistaken you live in Canada...in Portugal the same thing is happening *nodding*.
"Having said all this, I coming from a poor family had the freedom to bust my butt, work very hard got myself an education a good job, in short, I made the system, Democracy, work for me."
You did your job as a member of your society...a true citizen...*high five*!
"No system is perfect, this is the only one I've ever been in, could it be better, of course, but up and until humankind becomes uncorrupt don't expect things to be perfect, that is until a few hundred years from now when we become like in Star Trek and get a Federation of Planets, and everybody is happy and wears real ugly clothes,lol."
LOL LOL LOL that was funny! But at least you hope that things change in 100 years (better than nothing)...
I agree with you when you say that we must become uncorrupt in order to render democracy pure...
Bob, excellent input! Thank you so much *bowing*! And you made me laugh too lol...thanks!
Cheers
Hey Swu :D!
ReplyDelete"I believe you. About the we can achieve is a sort of pseudo-democracy. However, I would rather have that than the alternative."
Let's hear it...
"When one thinks about democracy, you must also consider what from of economy you will have to go with it. For instance, socialism can get way out of control and cause the democracy to fail."
Tell me about it (I live in a socialist country)....
"If everybody has everything, it's difficult to fund the system."
True.
"Capitalism, on the other hand, has the drawback that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Capitalism is like a giant carnivor. It will eat the weak."
Also true. Like I was telling LS, yesterday, Capitalism must be re-designed (its spirit is good, but it is too lenient on financial abuses...it needs more legislation and it needs to be more socially responsible - and this is possible).
"A delicate mix of regulations and control has to be in place to keep capitalism from eating itself."
I totally agree with you.
Swu, once again, your wisdom has proved to be of excellent use in this arena...thank you so much for your input :D!
Cheers
Hi Alexys :D!
ReplyDelete"You make me want to finish my Greek lessons. It's funny, I can read a little Greek and speak a little, but I can understand more than I can read or speak. (I have to finish those lessons soon.) I have so much to do and my brain keeps sending me on detours."
I know what you mean...something similar happens with me and the Cape Verdean kreole (I can read more than I can speak or understand when spoken; but when sang I understand it well lol...odd).
Take it slowly...no rush :D!
"When the Greeks first spoke of democracy, do you think it was easier back then or is everything relative to our time period now? I often wonder if they had a more difficult time back then exercising democracy than some countries today."
I don't think it was easier back then (given the fact that they had much more serious social problems than we do now); but sometimes I bring myself to think that the more sapient, within the Greeks, could see the best in humans and believed that one day these could achieve democracy.
They had difficulties in exercising democracy because not everybody was considered a citizen, they had slaves, women didn't go beyond the 4th grade etc etc...whereas in our nations it should be easier to exercise democracy in its optimal sense. In some countries today, democracy cannot be implemented because even though everybody is considered a citizen, there is the notion of second class citizens (i.e. women) which are depleted of their rights and freedoms, and do not have any access to power whatsoever (not even within their homes).
"I am trying to add something more concrete, but I think you have covered it diligently. Do you think that in time, all nations will experience democracy?"
You did add something concrete...you made us think and explore how it was like back then, for which I thank you *bowing*!
I think that in time, even if not in ours, all nations will experience it. The basic principles of democracy reflect respect towards all members of society (all, not some) and I think that we will be capable of such respect universally speaking.
"I find a dichotomy with democracy - the more people realize that they live in a democratic society, (where they have many liberties) the more they are willing to fight for their rights (to keep them and get more.) Have you noticed that?"
I have. But that is the beauty of democracy to have the liberty to fight for one's rights...now, people must make use of their intelligence (supposedly developed by the access to education, although not always of quality - which is a right they should also fight for even harder) and acknowledge that they have reached the rights that empower them to decide how their nation is supposed to be ruled; and after acknowledging that, they should help others to reach those same rights (and there are several ways of helping)...
Globalisation is a nice word when it comes to travelling and trading but it seems like a bad word when it comes to aid others to attain liberty and freedoms...
I have a lot of respect for political activists that make use of their influence to help other nations reaching democracy...
"Bravo! Sheer applause. Take a bow."
Thank you *bowing*! *throwing roses*...thank you *bowing*!
"Efharistó- (Thank you, pronounced eff-har-ee-STOH)"
Efharistó...for the lesson (let me write it down)! :D
Lady A, thank you so very much for this superb comment, I loved it :D!
Democratic Cheers
Hi Fernando :D!
ReplyDelete"I wanted to say that I close my blog, Arte y Mundo, but I continue with the magazine Revista Arte y Mundo. So, I published that old translation I did about a story you write. this is the link: rharteymundo.wordpress.com"
You closed Arte Y Mundo? Oh no...
Ok, the Revista is also great :D! You did...I will visit it as soon as I finish here...and thanks :D!
"well, have a nice week my friend!!!! (I´m on holidays)"
Gracías, Fernandito...Have a great week, my friend :D! You're on holidays...lucky you *sigh* lol!
I'll see you soon...
Hi Peter :D!
ReplyDelete"I’m reminded of the words that President Abraham Lincoln once said, “That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Excellent words, aren't they?
"Looking around the world I know not all have this freedom that he spoke about."
Neither do I...
"We are blessed here with the right to vote, to speak our mind whether in word or in peaceful protest, and to question our chosen government if we see fit without fear of retribution."
Hear, Hear!
"It disappoints me when people here and elsewhere that have been given the right to vote choose to ignore this gift."
I disappoints me as well. I wonder if they realise that they are failing as citizens (not voting is a lack of civic responsibility and duty), and if they know that if they don't vote they have no saying in the matters of the state (they shouldn't even complain).
Not to mention that ignoring this gift is a total lack of respect for those who fought, in the past, and bled so that we could have this right today.
"To be given a say in how our country will be run and who will represent us, is what many have fought for and died for and what others long for in other places."
Ok, I hadn't read this part when I said what I said previously...of course, we are in utter agreement *high five*!
"For those countries under a rule that quashes human rights for their people, I condemn them, as do their own people I’m sure."
Hear, Hear!
Peter, as always it was a pleasure to hear from you...your input was fantastic, thank you! :D
Cheers
Hi Max,
ReplyDeleteI like the way your mind marinates the flavor of thought.
"I don't think it was easier back then (given the fact that they had much more serious social problems than we do now); but sometimes I bring myself to think that the more sapient, within the Greeks, could see the best in humans and believed that one day these could achieve democracy."
I agree with that reasoning and would also say that while the Greeks were living in strenuous times, they still had the time to bring us the greatest attributes of our society. Throughout history, the Greeks have taught us a thing or two about ourselves and those lessons are still with us. They taught us to to philosophize, dramatize, theorize and immortalize tragedy. They gave us a thesis, antithesis and synthesis and let us watch them politicize in olympic-sized democratic debates. They made us remember through mythic proportion, the mathematician, academician, fabler, the peripatetic lecturer and monumental architecture. They even made doctors swear by the Socratic oath. Today the Greek key can be seen around the world as the Versace logo.
"They had difficulties in exercising democracy because not everybody was considered a citizen, they had slaves, women didn't go beyond the 4th grade etc etc..."
I know that young male babies were stolen/taken from their families to breed for war and if they were not tough enough they would be killed.
"...whereas in our nations it should be easier to exercise democracy in its optimal sense. In some countries today, democracy cannot be implemented because even though everybody is considered a citizen, there is the notion of second class citizens (i.e. women) which are depleted of their rights and freedoms, and do not have any access to power whatsoever (not even within their homes)."
I agree.
George Orwell said,
"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning."
"You did add something concrete...you made us think and explore how it was like back then, for which I thank you *bowing*!"
Thank YOU.
"But that is the beauty of democracy to have the liberty to fight for one's rights...now, people must make use of their intelligence (supposedly developed by the access to education, although not always of quality - which is a right they should also fight for even harder) and acknowledge that they have reached the rights that empower them to decide how their nation is supposed to be ruled; and after acknowledging that, they should help others to reach those same rights (and there are several ways of helping)...
Globalisation is a nice word when it comes to travelling and trading but it seems like a bad word when it comes to aid others to attain liberty and freedoms...
I have a lot of respect for political activists that make use of their influence to help other nations reaching democracy..."
Very well said. How many times does democracy become bureaucracy? We work so hard for freedom that is never executed.
"Thank you *bowing*! *throwing roses*...thank you *bowing*!"
Ooh these roses smell sooo nice.
Thank you for the intellectual stimulus.
Stimulus Cheers.
Max,
ReplyDeleteI thought it was about time that I said something.
I believe that in a world where terror is prevalent, and there are societies who would love nothing more than to wipe our way of life out of existence, we cannot have true democracy. It has to be some sort of pseudo Democracy. What keeps the balance is the two party system.....so it can't veer to far from the real thing.
With everybody having equal access to power, our enemies, and there are many, would also have that access. We choose our leaders and trust that they will do the right thing, for the majority. It is impossible to do the right thing for everyone.
If they fail (Bush as an example) we not only get rid of him (actually 8 years was the max) but dump a good part of the republican party.
Now I know that you are talking more in abstract terms. I need to bring it to the democracy (pseudo)that I know best.
With Obama, we move, I think, closer to Democracy than with Bush, where the people's will is enacted.
GREAT topic, and I love the way you break it down into it's components, and always with a history lesson thrown in for good measure.
Hi Lady A,
ReplyDelete"I like the way your mind marinates the flavor of thought."
This is beautiful! You have a way with words, sista *bowing*!
"I agree with that reasoning and would also say that while the Greeks were living in strenuous times, they still had the time to bring us the greatest attributes of our society. Throughout history, the Greeks have taught us a thing or two about ourselves and those lessons are still with us."
Absolutely!! Their legacy to Mankind is huge!
"They taught us to to philosophize, dramatize, theorize and immortalize tragedy. They gave us a thesis, antithesis and synthesis and let us watch them politicize in olympic-sized democratic debates. They made us remember through mythic proportion, the mathematician, academician, fabler, the peripatetic lecturer and monumental architecture. They even made doctors swear by the Socratic oath. Today the Greek key can be seen around the world as the Versace logo."
Yes. Thank God, they did. Indeed. Yes, the Hippocratic oath. Aaah, the Medusa...I am not a great fan of Versace but I love its logo!
Indeed, the world needs to remember and appreciate the Greek legacy.
"I know that young male babies were stolen/taken from their families to breed for war and if they were not tough enough they would be killed."
That I didn't know (this is similar to what rebels are doing in Africa, nowdays, stealing children from villages and turning them into soldiers; and when they are not tough...they are killed) - awful, isn't it?
"George Orwell said,
["Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning."]"
Excellent! I agree with him, particularly with "the defenders or every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy"...so true; and "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"...Hear, Hear!
"Thank YOU."
You are most welcome, darling *Bowing*!
"Very well said. How many times does democracy become bureaucracy? We work so hard for freedom that is never executed."
Too many times. You are right, it is never executed because instead of exercising it we are busy fighting for it (do we not see that we have it already? "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear").
"Ooh these roses smell sooo nice."
They are natural...no lab manipulation.
"Thank you for the intellectual stimulus."
Girl, don't mention it ^5! Intellectual stimulus is (in this case) a dance for two :D!
Intellectual Cheers
Hi Mel :D!
ReplyDelete"I thought it was about time that I said something."
And we have been anxiously waiting for you *bowing*...
"I believe that in a world where terror is prevalent, and there are societies who would love nothing more than to wipe our way of life out of existence, we cannot have true democracy. It has to be some sort of pseudo Democracy. What keeps the balance is the two party system.....so it can't veer to far from the real thing."
This is an interesting point that only one reader had addressed (although quite subtly)...the prevalence of terror and its effects on democracy...very good!
"With everybody having equal access to power, our enemies, and there are many, would also have that access. We choose our leaders and trust that they will do the right thing, for the majority. It is impossible to do the right thing for everyone."
I agree that it is impossible to do the right thing for everyone. .
Well, there are many aspects of power; but if you are talking about having access to the power of information, then we would have to analyse how far-reaching are the tentacles of the our enemies within our society - are they in our public institutions or not, how rooted are they in our cultures etc...but this is what we have the national security forces for, right?
However should power be barred to some? And what some should that be? How do we assess that? And won't that conflict with the Declaration of the Humans Rights?
"If they fail (Bush as an example) we not only get rid of him (actually 8 years was the max) but dump a good part of the republican party."
LOL the power of democracy, right?
"Now I know that you are talking more in abstract terms. I need to bring it to the democracy (pseudo)that I know best."
You did well, you did extremely well...
"With Obama, we move, I think, closer to Democracy than with Bush, where the people's will is enacted."
That is also what I perceive.
"GREAT topic, and I love the way you break it down into it's components, and always with a history lesson thrown in for good measure."
Thank you so much, Mel *bowing*! You are kind!
And thanks for sharing your thoughts with us; I absolutely loved it :D!
Cheers
Hi Max,
ReplyDelete"Yes. Thank God, they did. Indeed. Yes, the Hippocratic oath. Aaah, the Medusa...I am not a great fan of Versace but I love its logo!"
I don't know why I wrote Socratic Oath when I know it Hippocratic Oath. I was thinking of Hemlock for a minute and wrote Socratic. (See what I mean, my brain was detoured) I know what you mean about Versace, a little over the top at times.
"That I didn't know (this is similar to what rebels are doing in Africa, nowdays, stealing children from villages and turning them into soldiers; and when they are not tough...they are killed) - awful, isn't it?"
That is horrific. Poor kids.
"Excellent! I agree with him, particularly with "the defenders or every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy"...so true; and "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"...Hear, Hear!"
That's a profound quote isn't it?
"Too many times. You are right, it is never executed because instead of exercising it we are busy fighting for it (do we not see that we have it already? "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear")."
Exactly.
"They are natural...no lab manipulation."
I know. I know. They are priceless.
"Girl, don't mention it ^5! Intellectual stimulus is (in this case) a dance for two :D!"
^5 ^5 ^5 ^5!
Brain-ful Cheers!
Hi Lady A,
ReplyDelete"I don't know why I wrote Socratic Oath when I know it Hippocratic Oath. I was thinking of Hemlock for a minute and wrote Socratic. (See what I mean, my brain was detoured) I know what you mean about Versace, a little over the top at times."
I know exactly what you mean...it happens to me as well (sometimes the mind is hovering over a certain subject and when we communicate we start saying things that are related to what our mind is reflecting at the time...I know how it goes). Yes, too many colours, too much skin exposure...not my thing.
"That is horrific. Poor kids."
Poor kids indeed.
"That's a profound quote isn't it?"
Absolutely!!
"I know. I know. They are priceless."
They are...that's why their scent is priceless!
"^5 ^5 ^5 ^5!"
LOL LOL ^5^5^5...*break so that hand recovers*...^5!
Weekend Cheers
Girl, the blog looking good. I was just going through my post comments and I realized that you will be making changes over the weekend. I like your text font, easy to read.
ReplyDeleteBTW often government abuse democracy, as they make decisions for the people without listening, lol. Time to got back to schoool.....
Interesting read as always.
Anna :)
Hey Anna :D!
ReplyDelete"Girl, the blog looking good. I was just going through my post comments and I realized that you will be making changes over the weekend. I like your text font, easy to read."
Thanks :D! Yes, I changed it last friday (since I wouldn't be able during the weekend)...and I have to thank you for it *bowing*!
That is great...girl! Thanks for the feedback :D!
"BTW often government abuse democracy, as they make decisions for the people without listening, lol. Time to got back to schoool....."
You are right, unfortunately that is what governments do *nodding*.
"Interesting read as always."
You are so kind, thank you *bowing*!
Anna, my good friend, thank you for having dropped by and shared your thoughts with us :D!
Cheers
If you believe all human beings are equal at the core and have equal access to inner power, then you do not buy into the illusions of images bombarding you from the physical world. What you choose to believe does not have to be shaped by external influence. This is an exercise in mental discipline.
ReplyDeleteHi Liara :D!
ReplyDelete"This is an exercise in mental discipline."
And not many are willing to discipline the mind. It seems that they find it easier to just let it run wild and be fed by junk.
Darling, thank you so much for your fantastic input; I loved it *bowing*!
Cheers